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I started on the passenger door today. Used a wire brush (hand brush) to get the "decomposed" foam backing off of the vinyl upholstery and the plastic door panel. That's the reason the upholstery comes down - the foam has deteriorated, and turned into sort of sticky dust. I used a piece of stiff cardboard under it, to provide a firm flat surface. I do not want to pull the upholstery out at the bottom - that's what made it necessary to dismantle the door to fix it. I will mask around that area on the door, then cover all of the door, to avoid getting adhesive spray anywhere else. Also will attach cardboard under the loose upholstery, because both sides need to be sprayed. I thought about gluing some thin foam into the door panel first, then spray it as well, before working the upholstery back into place, but I don't think I'll do that. There will be a small gap between the upholstery and the edge of the upper part of the door panel (or 'door card, as it is called on old vehicles), but it won't show much, and leaving that gap will make it easier to work the upholstery back up behind the plastic panel at the top & sides. I will start at the bottom (above the arm rest) and press it into place, working up from there, evenly all across the bottom, as I go up.then I'll use some sort of flat blunt tool to push the top edge of the upholstery up under the top lip. I'll try to get some photos when I do this, in case this explanation is not clear. I should really go ahead & do the back doors right away as well, but I don't know if I'll get to it before it turns cold here.

Now last week or so the right side did the same thing. I think I mentioned previously that the rear door upholstery panels are 'baggy' too. I need to figure out how I can spray the two sides (door panel & the back of the upholstery) without getting glue every where. I saw a deal on YouTube recently where a guy used the nozzle off of a WD-40 spray bottle to be able to more accurately direct the stuff into hard to get to places. (He was using it to paint, not shoot adhesive. This was the type that has the swing-up straw.) I should do it before Winter sets in.

Alright, I confess. I did it anyway. Decided to try to get it back together. Spending money that turns out to be a waste rubs me real wrong (the spray adhesive I bought). So I whittled on the pegs and the stop flanges that gave the foam space (kept the panel from coming down tight), and used a bunch of small short screws to fasten it down. (Drilling small holes in the center of each peg - well not all of them, but enough to keep it all in place. Used high heat hot glue to secure the insulation / sound deadening material back in place.) Next time I get out to my favorite salvage yard, I'll still check for a Journey with door panels. See what he wants for them, then decide. It's an old car now, by today's standards. (My first car was this old when I first got it. But that was a different time, cars were easier to maintain back then. It was a 62 Chrysler Newport.)

This is rather like admitting defeat. I got some adhesive and glued the vinyl back on. But I didn't replace the thin foam, which had totally turned into dust. Turns out that is crucial, because the way it's all made, it needs that foam to close the gap. I didn't go to a salvage because there aren't any anywhere near our little town. This is cultural center of the largest Amish community in the world, and maybe that's why there are no salvages close by. (A number of "used buggy lots", but no salvages. The ones that used to be the closest ones have all closed.) But it looks like I'll either have to "accept the sting of defeat" and go to a salvage, or just use it as it is. The other reason I went the repair route is because I have a background in auto restoration, and so I tend to think along those lines. But these modern plastic cars are another matter entirely. I mean, there can be plastic parts, but the way this panel is fastened in there, it is obvious that this vehicle was manufactured as a "discardable". Sorry to say that, because I'm a MoPar guy through and through. It's just not the same anymore. I had only noticed the 2 front doors until now, but examining the rear doors this morning, I see that they are doing the same thing. Can I assume that ALL Journeys used the same shape and size door panels?

Mine is the base model, so this upholstery isn't real leather. I have tried to think of some chemical I might have left in the car, but I cannot recall that I have ever had anything like that in this car at all. I am self employed, and the place I rent as a shop is just a quarter mile from our house. There isn't room on our drive at the house for another vehicle, so after this Journey became my work vehicle, I have left it up there at my shop, and just walk back & forth, year around. So yeah, the windows are all the way up pretty much all of the time. (I wouldn't park it here anyway, as I try to avoid all short trips like that. No use starting the car for just a quarter mile, and I need the daily exercise anyway - walk home for lunch as well, so I get in at least a mile every day. Not a lot, I know, but better than just sitting all of the time, as I generally do in my work.) I didn't work today, because I had some sort of "episode" yesterday, and still don't feel right. So this late afternoon I used a large drill bit to get those melted down plastic "rivets" down far enough that I could get that panel off from behind. (I think they are long enough that I can drill them for small screws.) If I hadn't tried to pull the upholstery completely out after it fell down over the door controls, I could have just cleaned it up a bit behind there, and glued it back up into place. I think I could push the top edge back up into the crack, but the bottom is a lot tighter, and the material goes around some of the rivet studs. I was, however, considering replacing the vinyl with real leather. I have some scraps from a rocking chair company where I do IT work, but I don't have any black pieces, at least not large enough for this area. The seats are all fabric - base model, as I said, so it might look a bit funny to have leather on the door panels. Did the tricked out models have leather door panel inserts? I had a 93 Chrysler T&C that had leather all around, seats and door panels. Thanks to everyone who has answered, by the way.

Thanks for the input. I was sort of assuming that what happened to mine might be somewhat common, especially for a 2009 model - 15 years old. It is the thin layer of foam on the back of the upholstery that deteriorated - basically it's like dust in there.

Anyone have this happen? Up until two years ago, when the Journey was replaced as the family car, it was always stored in the garage. After that, sitting out in the sun, the upholstered section of the door panel (AKA door card) of the right side door began to come away from its backing. If I had known what would eventually happen, I would have used a hypodermic needle to inject adhesive through the vinyl, to keep it in place. Later the left side got baggy as well, then recently it came out at the top, and laid over the window and door lock controls. I pulled to door panel off today, thinking that I could relatively easily remove the insert panel to which the upholstery was glued, and re-do it. Not so easy. There is insulation material heat-welded to the inside of the panel - pulled that loose, figuring to use a hot glue gut. Easy enough. But this inside panel (the white part) is welded down with multiple protrusions of the main panel, pushed down under melting heat to hold the smaller panel in place. Any suggestions on how to refasten it?

^^^ What I have seen in comparing the strand count on wires of the same gauge, across a span of 47 years (my 1946 Plymouth compared to a 93 Chrysler T&C) is that they used a much higher strand count wire on the older car, when compared to the later model one. More strands = greater ability to withstand repeated flexing. And about the only place where there was more or less constant flexing on the old car was in the engine harness. Incidentally, however, that's also where I saw the most wire failure in the 93. I would have expected to find it in the door to body harnesses. But come to think of it, I'm not sure I did a strand count on those wires on the 93. Should do that sometime, because they just may have used high strand count wire in those constant flex areas.

Two to add: One off-brand, our 'new to us' family car (AKA, my wife's car): 2019 Honda CR-V 2019 Ram Classic. (Need to sell: the Grand Caravan and/or the Journey) I also see that I failed to mention the 75 Dodge Dart slant-six I bought, and later gave to my oldest son. (Needs some repair work, and currently not tagged.)

Just be very careful about static electricity while dismantling that system. (When I was scrapping out a 93 Chrysler T&C, the manual had dire warnings about what could happen if you accidentally set it off. I DID manage to pull it w/o setting it off, so I do not know from experience how bad it would be.)

No help, but I feel your pain. Our 2009 started with these same "idiot lights" coming on early last Summer. It spent 7 weeks in & out of a local shop, we paid them a wad, and they couldn't fix it. My wife lost her confidence in the car, so we purchased a newer used vehicle . (She insisted that it not be another MoPar, so I won't say what it is.) I've driven it around 1,500 miles since then - with all of these lights still on, and it runs and drives fine. (Our case is possibly different, because this Journey is the base model, and never had cruise, which you loose automatically anytime the ABS system is not working. So that made no difference. This shop replaced several sensors, as well as the PCM, all to no advantage. Except to them, and the parts stores....)

The video was helpful, because just from the picture alone, it was my impression that this was accessed from the transmission pan, on the bottom side.

That is interesting to know. The glue/adhesive on the one I tried to clean off (93 Chrysler T & C - 2nd Gen) was not like that. It held onto the razor knife blade - too sticky still. Maybe if I had tried to do it when it was really cold? I don't know, but it was really a chore getting it off.

What did you use to clean up the old "glue"?

I also prefer to do repairs myself if at all possible, but after attempting to remove the hatch window from a 93 Chrysler T & C, I'd not try it again. I was using a razor knife, then a serrated knife once I got a bit of clearance, but if the two surfaces touched, it was stuck again. Then in the process of trying to keep them apart, I pried on it too much, and it shattered. With a broken one, I'd probably do the clean up myself, but I wouldn't try to pull one at a salvage, unless someone can tell what the secrete is. Spray in dish soap? But then everything is slippery.... (I have replaced a side window in another T & C, a 2000, and removed all of the side glass from that 93 T & C w/o breaking any, but the rear window and the windshield, those came out in pieces.)

Update: I still have the 09 Journey. Registration ran out in November, so I had to make a decision quickly. The "off-brand" 2019 we bought is an AWD, and came new M&S tires, but my wife doesn't trust anything but Blizzaks. The salesman on this deal was extremely knowledgeable, and we were both impressed with his manner. But the one thing he told us that my wife won't accept is that you almost cannot get this car stuck in snow, even if you try to. So I put the Blizzaks back on the Journey, while trying to find the preferred steel wheels for the Honda CRV. Apparently they were never offered, and I cannot even find any after-market steel wheels for this vehicle. Bought some used alloys, but wanted to clean off the salt corrosion and repaint, and it's COLD here in Ohio, so we're using the Journey for winter driving for the time being. So that explains why the Journey is still in my "stable". (Also, I wanted to be sure that it wouldn't fail catastrophically right away after selling it, and it also has an outstanding recall on it.) So here's the actual update on the Journey. About a week ago the ESP and BAS lights came on, and stay on. I don't have a code reader - borrowed one before - so I don't know what codes it's throwing. I've read other threads here about the ESP light coming on, and the car won't go out of Park. Nothing like that here. I should also say that the wheels on which the snow tires are mounted do not have the fancy sensor valve stems. (But these lights didn't come on until well after I installed those wheels.) So these lights stay on all of the time, but I haven't noticed any difference at all in the way the car runs or drives. It's just those lights. So should I expect it to suddenly do like the other guy's car, and either not run, or not go out of park? This Electronic Stability Program (ESP) Indicator Light / Brake Assist System (BAS) malfunction, does it just result in a more 'manual, old-timish' braking and steering scenario, where the ABS and features like stop working, or is it more dangerous than that? (I already said in previous posts that most of my driving experience has been on vehicles w/o any of that stuff, and actually think that for people who learned to drive on vehicles like that, you actually have better control of the vehicle w/o ABS. Like trying to slow down when the right side wheels are on snow or ice, and only the left side is on clear pavement. I don't want to start an argument about that - just saying that for me personally, I have better control of a vehicle w/o ABS than one with it.) My concern as to this malfunction creating a dangerous situation is mostly due to the fact that our daughter is in the hospital due to complications of their twins' upcoming birth, and so we often use this car to transport their 19 month old. (Taking care of him most days, so our son-in-law can keep working, and spend time with our daughter in the hospital. It is now 4 weeks that she's been there.)

I have a 46 Plymouth, and yes, of course it is 6 volt, so much larger gauge wire everywhere. I also had a 93 Chrysler T&C that I scrapped out after the Rust devil got it. I found various places where the wires were broken in the 93, especially in the engine harness, where movement of the engine results in constant flexing. I have compared the wiring in the two vehicles, gauge for gauge, and the difference, and the key in the case of wires that sustain daily flexing, is the strand count. The finer the strands, the more flexible they are, and the longer it will take before that flexing results in broken wires. (For an extreme example, compare automobile wire to stranded wire used in buildings where conduit is required. The building wire is available at a significantly lower cost, but the strand count is much lower for the same gauge. Very stiff in comparison.)

I definitely get it about all of the computerized bells & whistles. I don't even care for the electric stuff, like power window winders. I know how to roll a window up & down, no problem. Personally, having learned to drive w/o even power brakes etc, I also have a strong dislike for ABS. Our small street empties out on a larger street on a fairly steep down-hill slope. When there is heavy snow fall, the township usually only gets the center of our street cleared. So descending to the stop sign, the right wheels are both on packed snow, while only the left wheels have traction. So the ABS senses that the right wheels are sliding while the left side wheels are still rotating, and shuts down the brakes. So then you just go right on down the hill into the cross traffic. My wife just takes the long route, out the other way. (I do find that it stops better if I put it into neutral going down that hill. Something about having the main braking wheels - the front - being the powered wheels as well just doesn't help vehicle control on slippery surfaces. The wheels that are expected to do the majority of the braking are trying to spin at the same time.)

Great resource! I saw that there is a chapter (20) on the standard transmission. Was that available in cars destined to stay in Mexico? Where else? (I still distrust automatics.)

Here's a funny thing. US 62 goes through near Choctaw, correct? (I think it goes through south east of where I grew up in north east Oklahoma, maybe through Muskogee?) Anyway, it also goes through our little town here in Ohio (Berlin). It's a highway I'd like to drive someday, all the way from Buffalo, NY down to Brownsville, TX. (Once I can finish the restoration on my 46 Plymouth....)

My Dad grew up north of Enid, in the Kremlin & Hillsdale area. My folks both graduated from the Corn Bible Academy (in Corn, OK), & I've been to church youth events in the Weatherford & Hydro area. (My great grandfather was one of the original settlers in Corn, then spelled Korn. Later they moved down to the Gotebo area, south of you.) I have relatives in the Fairview area as well.

We bought our 2009 Journey used in Florida, a 'rear plate only' state, so it didn't have any holes drilled in the front bumper skin. I just went the pull tie route, sort of planning to make a bracket that would fasten to the steel structure behind the grill, and stick through in order to fasten the tag in place. But I never got it done, and a year or so back Ohio dropped the requirement for a front plate. So when after years of use one of the pull ties broke, off it came.

What part of Oklahoma are you from? I grew up near the north edge of Tulsa County, not far from Washington County (Collinsville). (And 16 miles west of Claremore.)

2009 FWD Journey, 4 banger. Southern part of the Ohio 'Snow Belt" (I call this the salt belt. Holmes County hills. Narrow back roads, sharp turns, steep assents & descents.) That said, what I've noticed is that ABS works against you when attempting to slow down on a descent, down to a stop sign. The Journey does better if I put it into Neutral as I come down to the stop sign at the end of our street. (My wife just avoids that way leaving our street, and takes the round-about route out to the main road.) This car does well in snow, I'd say. But then I slow down for bad conditions. I grew up in Oklahoma, where we had more ice covered roads than snow. Remember one time on a trip back to Oklahoma - hit an ice storm in Missouri. Put up in a motel early that Saturday afternoon, because the heater couldn't keep the ice off of the wipers. Next morning went back out on the highway, and the ice was still all there. Solid sheet. Driving about 25 MPH. A PU with a camper goes by at about 40, does a few donuts in front of us, down through the median, back up on the road, and away he went. Didn't learn a solitary thing. Anyway, never had problems with our Journey on packed snow here in Ohio.

I didn't read over the entire thread so far, but I had a 2000 Chrysler T&C that would get soaked carpet like that. It was the drain from the wiper stowage area. Leaves fall in there, rot, then plug the tube that is supposed to drain water out of that area before it got high enough to get into that chamber of the heating-cooling system. I could usually just pull the rubber drain tube off on the firewall, and the water would pour out. There was always a lot of water in there before it would actually come in through there, into the cabin. Then just had to run a wire through the drain tube to clear it. (And try to remember to keep after it, before it soaked the carpet again.) In my case, it would come pouring in just as I moved the car. As it tilted to one side, then the water would come in on the low side. Same deal with the trees - lots of pine needles in my case.