Wont start after head gasket replacement

[Borjawil]

Just replaced the head gaskets. Car turns over but wont fire. No DTCs. New plugs. fuse and relay to fuel pump are good. What should I check next? Figured Id spray some starting fluid in the intake tube and see if I can get it to fire. Any other ideas?

[John/Horace]

Make sure all the electrical plugs are back together, easy to forget one.

 

Starter spray tends to strip oil off the cyclinder walls so a little hard on engine. I like to use a syringe of gasoline down a cyclinder instead.

 

Timing is critical when changing timing belts, even one tooth off and you can lose 8 degrees, car will run ruff...or not at all.

You double checked cam and crank timing before reinstalling covers again?

 

 

[Borjawil]

Ill try the gas directly into cylinder(s). Double checked connections and I did check the timing once belt was reinstalled. 

[Borjawil]

Tried gas in cylinder and nothing. Thought it smelled like fuel beforehand so I checked another plug, and smelled like gas and looked wet as well. How do I check I'm getting spark? I figured if I am getting spark it could be timing some how, but I'm leaning towards no spark at this point. 

[Borjawil]

Well looks like i have fuel and spark and about 80-90 psi on the front 3 cylinders. havent removed the intake to test the rear ones. 

[John/Horace]

That is low for a car engine, but cold cyclinder readings are normally slightly lower.

Is it a thread in tester or a hold in place unit? I doubt car will run on 80-90 psi on several cyclinders.
 

I think a new head gasket needs a few heat cycles to seat properly which could be part of issue.

 

Fuel spark compression and then timing. But running engine needed to confirm timing. Although number one plug removed and screw driver down plug hole with crank at TDC is a crude confirmation. Piston should be at end of stroke at TDC.

[Borjawil]

Front 3 driver to passenger is 80ish, 100, 80ish. Back 3 are 0. Ideas? I've begin tearing down again to double check timing, but I'm pretty sure timing won't affect compression?

[Borjawil]

At this point I have to ask if it would be easier to swap in another engine? I have a spare I bought as I was told this one was seized. Seems to me it's less work, but I haven't done it before on this vehicle. 

[Borjawil]

Sorry for the multiple posts, read above as well as this one. Reading through I realize that the head gaskets go a certain way up. I matched up the ports correctly but possibly they were upside down? Don't think it would account for no compression, but figured I'd clarify. Gaskets didn't say, bit they did have rivets in them if that helps. Head of rivet goes up?

[Borjawil]

Apparently my rear cam was off a tooth. Possible the timing being off allowed the valves to be open thus no compression? 

 

Would it be wise to adjust the timing and run it? 

[OhareFred]

If you fixed the timing why would it be unwise to try it?  Double check all you timing marks and give it a try....

[John/Horace]

One tooth on an interference engine shouldn’t have damaged valves or piston from contact.

 

I would think there would still be some cyclinder fcompression, leak down if valves not fully closed would be supper fast after cranking stops.

 

Lots of procedure steps affect compression testing, wet versus dry, intake throttle left closed versus open, number of revolutions, fuel pump disabled properly, etc.

[Borjawil]

Set timing/belt, tightened tensioner, rotated the crank twice, and timing was on point. Tightened rocker bolts and put everything together but serpentine and intake. Tested rear middle cylinder and got 0 compression. Said fuck it and put it all together. Fired on the first or second crank for about a second, then died. Rattling sound like valve or a dead cylinder when it did fire. Decided to test front 3 at that point and got 75, 95-100, 75 on the front. No gas pedal, didnt disable fuel pump, tested before this tear down with and without all plugs in. Tested rear with all plugs in this time, and fronts with all 3 out. 

 

At this point Im thinking of just swapping the engine out unless someones has any ideas. Id hate to check the timing again to find it set correctly and that would lead me to believe the head isnt seat, damaged, etc. At a loss, i could swap the rear head as well, but with no guarantee thats the issue i feel like ill be spinning my wheels. Just not the ones i want to. 

[Borjawil]

Decided to retorque the head bolts and see if there was any change. no compression. Decided to leave the rocker bolts loose so that all valves are closed, and i still have no compression. Needle doesnt even move. Correct me if im wrong, but with valves closed there has to be a build up of compression correct? Leads me to believe ever the head isnt seated correctly some how or theres valve damage. Going to go ahead and pull the head and see whats going on. Feel free to chime in with your .02

[John/Horace]

I have done head gaskets mainly on snowmobiles and small engines a few times. Although I did do a full tear down, crank bearings etc on a few VW air cooled engines years ago.

 

Aluminum engines are from my understanding a lot more sensitive to work on for this kind of work than the old cast iron stuff.

Overheating a newer style aluminum engine can do significantly more damage. I admire you taking a run at this kind of repair. There are a lot of full time shop mechanics who would stay very far away from a rebuild like this. 

 

I don’t know your starting compression before the job or cooling issues car went through etc. It’s possible the heads are warped to the point that without serious machine shop work you may have had limited possibility for success. The link I sent you more or less says the heads can’t be done with the block still in the car because of the way it was designed to come apart.

Try to retorque head and try to get compression seems reasonable. Yeah with valves closed compression should build up.

[Borjawil]

remember that one time when head gaskets go on a specific side, but can fit on either side properly, but they dont have a side that says "UP" or "LEFT RIGHT"? Yea, I did that. thanks for coming along on the ride. Lets hope thats the issue and not something else. 

[Borjawil]

Heres the orientation. Note the small and large circles next to the coolant passages on the outsides. My gaskets didnt have a corner cut either. But looking at the missing or added small holes near the bigger oblong passages helped me sort it out. 

[OhareFred]

Are you sure the parts store gave you the correct gaskets?  Maybe get a new set from another store to double check.  If they aren’t the same I’d go back to the first store and raise hell....good luck, please keep us in the loop.....

[Borjawil]

Ugh well now after swapping gaskets around I'm back where I was. But I can do the whole procedure in about 6hrs now. So that's neat. Just had surgery so down for a few days or so, but yea, I'm leaning towards the incorrect gaskets. No way it ran before and now there's no compression in the rear three. 

 

I'm also certain the rear and front cams can't swap around/pulleys can't swap? Didn't remove the cams so that's not a worry, but maybe pulleys?  

[Borjawil]

Here's a pic of the kit received. 09 journey 3.5 sxt. Ive seen different kits for different Vin codes. Can anyone confirm a part number for my vehicle?

[Borjawil]

My 8th digit is V. I have found separate head gaskets but not a full kit. Seems the right or front gasket PN pulls up kits not for my Vin code, while the rear or left does not. 

[John/Horace]

I try to compare new ones to old used ones if it’s not destroyed when removing. Sometimes when they don’t mark it, it doesn’t matter.

Locally where I am there are several Oreilly’s type places run by kids, some half know what they are doing. Then there is the more expensive long time in business parts guy with staff with gray hair,  one who is retired mechanic. Trade gets 30 percent discount, if I whine I might get 10 percent. They might tell you to go home and drag your cyclinder head or old bearing into store; but they will not knowingly sell your the wrong part. Like the dealer parts guy who warns you he hasn’t sold the part you are buying in 4 plus years; sometimes worth the extra hazzle  to get to.
 

Watch that surgery recovery. 

 

[Borjawil]

Just saw your above post on the aluminum block stuff. Not my first rodeo in head gaskets or rebuilding engines. Car ran before tear down just fine, no noise, just coolant mixing with oil. Started right up and drove even. True the head could have warped, but I've never seen no compression on an entire side after it was just running. 

 

As far as the head not being able to be removed with engine in, that's what the manual says. I've been through plenty of procedures that require an obscene amount of time to do naccording the service manual...like 8 hours but actually only take an hour if you're a bit slow. The service manual says it can't be done because you can't remove the cams with the heads in, the cam bolts are super long, etc. I've done it twice now so pretty sure ya can. Just need to finaggle it. 

 

But at this point I'm going check the compression on the other engine before swapping it, and then figure out what the hell is going on with this one when I get it out. 

 

[Borjawil]

Looks like the key on the pulley sheared off Just enough to not rotate the cam well enough but by hand would turn and stay in place when setting the timing.