Tedybear315 Posted July 22, 2020 Report Share Posted July 22, 2020 Hello all, New to this group, but not new to wrenching. My late sister had a 2010 Dodge Journey with the V6. It's had multiple issues with odd electrical for the last couple of years. Long story short: Horn decides to blow itself at random times. Radiator Cooling fan will cycle itself on and off at random times with the engine OFF and stone cold. Engine at times will not start after driving it. Now sense before she passed last November I've been trying to assist her with this. She wound up taking it to a shop that was a nightmare that claimed the steering column shorted out and had an electrical fire! So they supposedly fixed it and replaced all the burnt parts. (That was lie #1 of many....) After they attempted to bill her over 3k for repairs and held the Journey for just over a YEAR! We threatened legal action and they supposedly "installed" all the old parts back on the Journey and gave it back to her. When she passed away my nephew turned it over to me and I've been working on it on/off for the last few months as time permits. Upon inspection I didn't see any evidence of wiring repairs or anything else they supposedly repaired. You know how things get 'witness' marks if moved or tampered with- Everything down to the last factory cable retainer was still in use. Okay, Vent mode off... Figured the TIPM was shorting out for the horn. And maybe that is the issue with the engine start. At times the battery was going dead, but we couldn't pinpoint that one. TIPM replaced with one from a scrapped Journey. (Don't judge....I'd rather spend $30 at a PYP yard and see what happens and not over $800 and still have the issue(s)...) Battery was replaced and fully charged. (Last shop supposedly installed a new battery..the one I removed was over 5 years old....another lie) It started fine, but we noted the cooling fan was turning itself on and off for several minutes. It would repeat this about every 45 minutes to an hour. I had it parked next to my work area while doing a brake job and listened to it. The engine was stone cold. And of course the horn decided to start going off by itself at all hours of the day/night. My step father unhooked the battery to shut it up. I have sense pulled the set of fuses to keep it from going off and draining the battery. I can bypass the horn easy enough, but need to get the cooling fan issue resolved as it's killing the battery. I've been starting it every few days and letting it idle for a while to top off the battery charge. It's not on the road yet, so that's the best I can do. When it does start, alternator works 100%. Good charge amps and voltage. (Love my inductive amp meter set) It's my feeling that the cooling fan turning on and off at random times is the reason for the dead battery. Has anyone come across this before? I've replaced the battery harness and cleaned the grounds already. The ol' girl runs like a top! However it's about as reliable as a broken toilet. Would anyone have a diagram of the cooling fan circuit and the criteria for the fans to operate? I've got a decent set of scan tools that can read all the modules, but kinda need some guidance. Last time the fan kicked 'on' while I was standing in front of it I pulled the relay from the fuse box/TIPM. The relay isn't shorted out, I hear and feel the relay physically kicking "ON". Just need to know what commands it to go on. The other issues I can tackle as we move forward. I've not been able to recreate the 'no start' as of yet. The dealership also couldn't recreate any of this. They cleaned a ground and claimed it was fixed- Issue returned quickly and they admitted not knowing what it was. Thanks in advance. I'd like to again get the battery going dead issue resolved, and the engine cooling fan running at random times while stone cold seems a good place to start. I'll be taking it to the DMV in a few weeks to retitle it and put it on the road to replace my rusty Subaru. S- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John/Horace Posted July 22, 2020 Report Share Posted July 22, 2020 Welcome to the forum. Sounds like you have several different problems at once. If you scan ecm what codes show up? Security system is triggering horn I think. Usually it’s the remote that arms it, try only using key for door and ignition function and see if horn stops triggering. If it does Could be door/hood switchs or various modules causing issue. Stop using remotes until alarm system fixed. Cooling fans come on for high temp in engine glycol, but also for high pressure in a/c refrigerant system. What is dash gauge showing for engine temp, does it seem correct. Is a/c working ok ? Try leaving a/c off completely, if engine cooling fan still comes on pull any relays related to a/c and see if that stops cooling fan. If it does and you aren’t going to fix a/c there is a way to disable a/c under hood on high side line pressure sensor plug. Or fix a/c high pressure problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedybear315 Posted July 22, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2020 3 minutes ago, John/Horace said: Welcome to the forum. Sounds like you have several different problems at once. If you scan ecm what codes show up? Security system is triggering horn I think. Usually it’s the remote that arms it, try only using key for door and ignition function and see if horn stops triggering. If it does Could be door/hood switchs or various modules causing issue. Stop using remotes until alarm system fixed. Cooling fans come on for high temp in engine glycol, but also for high pressure in a/c refrigerant system. What is dash gauge showing for engine temp, does it seem correct. Is a/c working ok ? Try leaving a/c off completely, if engine cooling fan still comes on pull any relays related to a/c and see if that stops cooling fan. If it does and you aren’t going to fix a/c there is a way to disable a/c under hood on high side line pressure sensor plug. Or fix a/c high pressure problem. Thanks for getting back to me! The security system hasn't been active when the horn does it's thing. The Journey is stored at my families place out in the country, and the doors are not locked and the security system isn't engaged. I've got the only working key for the time being, so I know my step father and mother can't accidentally lock the doors and have the system arm itself. I also peeked at the chassis switches and ensured that the prime suspect (the hood switch) wasn't getting sticky. When it did this with my sister, it would also randomly kick the horn on while she was driving! (That always goes over well.....LOL) Scan of all the body modules comes back clean. I reprogrammed the system to accept the used TIPM, and that went flawless. The only code that kicks up is the expected "Low system voltage" when the battery gets drained and I need to jump start it. Now the cooling fan, this one is a headache. Scan tool shows pretty much room temp for the engine temp when the fan comes on. Last time it was acting up I just parked it and the coolant temp was at the 1/4 mark, and scan tool showed coolant temp at just under 145'f. As the Journey just sat there for the next few hours, I continued to hear the fan come on several times and run for about a minute or so before shutting off. I know they come on at times to prevent "heat soak" and such.. But a couple of hours later? naaaa, not so much. Air Conditioning works fine. However I am going to track down the pressure switch reading in the scan tool. Might just replace the switch. High head pressure even if the AC isn't running should kick the fan on to reduce it, but I've run the AC just the one time to test. Rest of the time it's turned off. Could be a bad switch, as the coolant temp sender appears to be reading correctly. If that switch is just a N/O or N/C switch? I might just unplug it and see what the result is. (scan tool should report if the switch is open or closed....or gives a pressure reading that I can compare with my HVAC gauges.) I've read up that the relay to the cooling fan at the radiator itself could also stick 'on' and cause the fan to run at high speed. When the fan runs I can hear it across the 'barn' I repair cars in. I'll have to dig up a wiring diagram, as I did pull the fan relay from the TIPM and heard it physically clicking on/off while the fan was running, but I need to see how they wired in the other relay to see how it operates. Should be an interesting time. Horn I can do a workaround with a remote relay and an external button. Won't be pretty, but it would work. Draining battery seemly from the cooling fan, that would be a bad day. I can't jump start the ol' girl after I do an 8hr shift for work each day. Thanks again! S- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John/Horace Posted July 23, 2020 Report Share Posted July 23, 2020 Horn sounds when ground is made in steering wheel behind airbag. Could be loose connection there or possibly clock spring wire harness that carries horn power wire through steering column. Assembly not much, can’t repair, would have to replace it. Chrysler has had recalls in the past on the Caravan clock spring harness, usually horn stopped working and airbag light came on showing problem. Be careful clockstring fires the airbag during an accident. Fan coming on is tricky without wiring diagram. You unplug a/c sensor plugs under hood first to see if it changes anything. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yogitech1 Posted February 13, 2023 Report Share Posted February 13, 2023 On 7/23/2020 at 12:50 AM, John/Horace said: Horn sounds when ground is made in steering wheel behind airbag. Could be loose connection there or possibly clock spring wire harness that carries horn power wire through steering column. Assembly not much, can’t repair, would have to replace it. Chrysler has had recalls in the past on the Caravan clock spring harness, usually horn stopped working and airbag light came on showing problem. Be careful clockstring fires the airbag during an accident. Fan coming on is tricky without wiring diagram. You unplug a/c sensor plugs under hood first to see if it changes anything. Good luck. I have a 2010 Journey SE 2.4L with intermittent horn issue and alarm doesn't work, also driver side doors do not turn on interior lights. I have read that the horn relay is on TIMP board and can be replaced if you're good at soldering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John/Horace Posted February 13, 2023 Report Share Posted February 13, 2023 Yes I have heard random horn is often TIPM on early model journeys. Could clean up contact points real shiny and see if it helps. People make up a bypass harness for TIPM to prove it’s the problem. There are utube links on how to do this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yogitech1 Posted February 13, 2023 Report Share Posted February 13, 2023 52 minutes ago, John/Horace said: Yes I have heard random horn is often TIPM on early model journeys. Could clean up contact points real shiny and see if it helps. People make up a bypass harness for TIPM to prove it’s the problem. There are utube links on how to do this. Thank you, I'll look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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