2.4journey2013 Posted August 9, 2020 Report Share Posted August 9, 2020 Hey guys, 2013 AT Dodge Journey with 2.4L. It's getting a random misfire (losing spark) at random times and it seems to be the same cylinder each time it does it. It's not consistent but more of a here and there. -I've checked the injectors, good -coil packs good, even bought a new one for cylinder 2 (#P0302) will be doing a compression test tomorrow. this seems like maybe a PCM issue? Can anyone else throw out any ideas? Thanks!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John/Horace Posted August 9, 2020 Report Share Posted August 9, 2020 Welcome to forum. So plug was replaced at least once with a new one ( it’s rare but new plugs can fail right away) and coil was replaced? Need to test compression in cyclinder two at a minimum, all four is best, more accurate with all plugs removed. Wet and dry test, table spoon of oil in the cyclinder. How many miles on the vehicle? If compression is decent and plug changed at least once and coil. Plastic intake manifold could be cracked or more likely the gasket or gaskets that seal against engine are faulty allowing extra air and a lean condition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2.4journey2013 Posted August 9, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2020 Thanks for the response. it has 82k miles as of yesterday. all plugs were changed 3 days ago. Number 2 cylinder kept giving random misfire here and there. Replaced the coil For that one specifically. the misfire isn't there always, kind of like a ghost here and there but for whatever reason when it's happening I can unplug cylinder 2 coil pack and there's no change To the motor, meaning I'm not getting spark but why? And why at random times and other times it can drive for 30 minutes or more without issues. This is why I was directed more towards the PCM causing an issue with the spark for cylinder 2 randomly. I will definitely be doing a compression test today as well as checking for exhaust gas in the coolant as I'm getting slight overheating but could just be air bubbles in the cooling system. As for compression test in this exact car, do I need to pull any fuses before preforming the compression test? Or can I just unplug the injectors and remove the spark plugs and turn over the motor via push button? I'm used to older cars, mainly pre OBD2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2late4u Posted August 9, 2020 Report Share Posted August 9, 2020 the misfire isn't there always, kind of like a ghost here and there but for whatever reason when it's happening I can unplug cylinder 2 coil pack and there's no change To the motor, meaning I'm not getting spark but why? And why at random times and other times it can drive for 30 minutes or more without issues................... I would definally check the wires and connetors to this coil pac as your statement points to a broken wire or connector making a bad connection at times...good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John/Horace Posted August 10, 2020 Report Share Posted August 10, 2020 (edited) Need to pull fuel pump relay and leave coils unplugged for compression test. But first Put a engine stethoscope or a long screwdriver in #2 injector, should feel and hear clicking when car is running. Bad injector is rare but possible. Node light plugged in harness will prove signal from ECM. Bad Intake manifold gasket possible. Edited August 10, 2020 by John/Horace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2.4journey2013 Posted August 12, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2020 On 8/9/2020 at 11:10 AM, 2late4u said: the misfire isn't there always, kind of like a ghost here and there but for whatever reason when it's happening I can unplug cylinder 2 coil pack and there's no change To the motor, meaning I'm not getting spark but why? And why at random times and other times it can drive for 30 minutes or more without issues................... I would definally check the wires and connetors to this coil pac as your statement points to a broken wire or connector making a bad connection at times...good luck Checked the wires for that coil pack, everything seemed fine. I also checked the radiator for any exhaust fumes leaking into the cooling system via the tester and chemical color. Also was OK there. Will be doing a final Compression test this evening and if that checks out. -replaced Spark plugs all 4 correct ones -replaced coil pack for cylinder 2 (misfire) -getting fuel and spark before it randomly misfires -checked cylinder 2 coil pack wiring for cracks/breaks - none to me, I think it's an issue with the PCM. Why would it have spark 10 mins and then start misfiring with no spark on cylinder 2 for xx amount of time and then resume normal spark to all 4 coil packs and it's not the same every time it's intermittent. Doesn't the PCM control spark among other things? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John/Horace Posted August 12, 2020 Report Share Posted August 12, 2020 PCM rarely fail on most vehicles. Bad cps sensor are known to sometimes cause cyclinder misfire. Also a wear item. Could also be an issue with plastic intake manifold, either a crack or a seal issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2.4journey2013 Posted August 13, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2020 2 hours ago, John/Horace said: PCM rarely fail on most vehicles. Bad cps sensor are known to sometimes cause cyclinder misfire. Also a wear item. Could also be an issue with plastic intake manifold, either a crack or a seal issue. After I check those and come back with OK, I'll be at a loss. warming it up now for compression test with the computer reset. Seeing if it will misfire while just idling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2.4journey2013 Posted August 13, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2020 Compression test completed: #1 210 #2 208 #3 210 #4 210 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2.4journey2013 Posted August 13, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2020 When replacing the CPS on this car, does it have to "relearn" or is it a plug and play? Newer cars are such headaches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John/Horace Posted August 13, 2020 Report Share Posted August 13, 2020 Compression looks good, you can forget about that as an issue. CPS I believe is plug and play on journey 2.4. Part is cheap, I would use oem if changing it, critical part for engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2.4journey2013 Posted August 13, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2020 Picking up a new CPS today or tomorrow and throwing it in, hopefully that does the trick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2.4journey2013 Posted August 13, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2020 (edited) Just a quick thought, could the EGR valve be causing an issue with idling misfire/stumble? I noticed last night I reset the computer, warmed it up (idled fine no misfire) took off And test drove about 5-6 miles with it as normal no misfire. I came to a stop sign shortly after and noticed the car slightly misfiring but no check engine light on, eased into the throttle and it drove as normal again for about 1.5 miles and I pulled over to check, still running normal. Finally got home and let it idle for a good while and it didn't Misfire. So it's very confusing. I noticed the coolant temp got up to about 210-212*F and that's when it seemed like misfire/rough idle at the stop sign but once it lowered back down it seemed fine. Edited August 13, 2020 by 2.4journey2013 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John/Horace Posted August 14, 2020 Report Share Posted August 14, 2020 That temp is too high, you probably need a new thermostat first. High temp I think can cause cyclinder misfire on its own. If it was a EGR issue there would probably be different codes coming up. The CPS sensors are a wear item and you will need one eventually; I would do thermostat right away. CAD$15.11 Add to Cart GATES 34773 {Click Info Button for Alternate/OEM Part Numbers} Includes Thermostat; 203 Degree Integrated Thermostat Housing; Includes Seal Info Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2.4journey2013 Posted August 14, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2020 Awesome, will do! I replaced the CPS but will wait to drive until I replace the t-stat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John/Horace Posted August 14, 2020 Report Share Posted August 14, 2020 (edited) My daughter in laws 2.4 CPS went at only 69k miles, but a 2012. Started to randomly die on her, kinda dangerous. I usually do them early on most of my cars. Fairly cheap part so not worth messing around if you are keeping car long term, IMO. I’m surprised car is not boiling over with temp up to 212. If you do drive it, carry some water with you until you change out stat. Edited August 14, 2020 by John/Horace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2late4u Posted August 14, 2020 Report Share Posted August 14, 2020 my 2014 usually runs around 195 and on hot alabama days the temp after driving and then idling can get up to 210-215 but then cools down some after a few minutes, if it gets that temp and stays there then yes it would be running hot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2.4journey2013 Posted August 15, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 15, 2020 I noticed the coolant wasn't flowing through the radiator just pretty much stand still the entire warm up (stuck closed?).I have purchased 2 Thermostats for the journey and will be replacing them shortly. I'll update this thread when that's completed. I have the new CPS installed but haven't driven the car since I put it in. Will test it out after the cooling parts are replaced and hopefully the misfire is gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2late4u Posted August 15, 2020 Report Share Posted August 15, 2020 2 ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2.4journey2013 Posted August 15, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 15, 2020 yes, it looks like there are 2 for the 2.4 2013 journey. One that sits in the plastic inlet like the above picture and one that actually sits against the cylinder head by the plastic water inlet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2late4u Posted August 15, 2020 Report Share Posted August 15, 2020 good to know my daughter has a 2.4 in her jeep i need to research this as well just in case...LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2.4journey2013 Posted August 16, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 16, 2020 yeah, looks like this will take a little longer than usual. I don't really feel like going out and replacing these parts in 100* weather right now! But as soon as it's completed I'll test drive and be back to this thread. 2late4u 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2.4journey2013 Posted August 18, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2020 (edited) replaced both thermostat even though it's 95*, the overheating seems to have settled down. I'm not exactly sure the low speed fuse is working for the radiator fan but when I was driving it didn't get above 200* and when I was idling it got to about 210-215* and it's still 90* weather outside. I noticed that the stumble happened. I went and added air to the tire and when I restarted the car it stumbled slightly for a minute or so but the check engine never came on. Once I pulled into the road it started to drive fine. The intake manifold gasket, if bad or failing would be constant. I dot think it would be ok here and then shortly leaking air. is there anything else I should check relating to the idle stumble? Air filter looks ok. I'm just starting to get stumped. could it be the Mass airflow sensor messing up? Edited August 18, 2020 by 2.4journey2013 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John/Horace Posted August 18, 2020 Report Share Posted August 18, 2020 No more misfire codes is good. There is no mass air flow , you have a MAP manifold absolute pressure sensor. It should set a code if bad. Idle issue is possible symptom. People sometimes clean sensor with intake manifold cleaner. It's cheap about $25. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2.4journey2013 Posted August 18, 2020 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2020 Might try that, yeah not getting any codes. Does this car have an in-line fuel filter near the gas tank? Possibly gunked up injectors, will be running some cleaner through it. I'm working on this for a family member or I'd have all the service manuals at least for my car, etc lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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