2012 journey v6 overheating

[DodgerDan79]

Okay, my wife's 2012 journey sxt v6 is getting dangerously close to being driven into a tree.    Long story so bear with me please.

 

Bought it September of 2018 with 90k miles.   By late March it wasn't blowing any heat at all in the front, just the rear.  No overheating, no loss of coolant, just the heat not blowing hot.  Took it into the dodge dealership that we bought it from, and they charged us $1300 to replace 2 trans cooler lines that were rusted and leaking, and replace and flush the heater core.   Worked fine for about 3 days.   Took it back in.   They had it for about a week, did another coolant flush and said it was fine.  Also told us both verbally, and felt the need to type it into the work order that it was fixed as far as they were concerned and wouldn't accept the vehicle back for that reason again.   Fishy and shady but whatever.   Like I said, the car was running fine, wasn't overheating or anything, plus the ac still worked fine since it was starting to get into early spring at this point.   Car seemed to be running fine until about August.  On our way home from vacation the temp gauge started climbing.   Didn't go into the red, just hotter than average.   Got home and did some Google diagnostic work.   Removed the thermostat and it was toast.   Replaced that, and used universal coolant from autozone ( i know, i know.   That comes up later), bled the system and all was well again until winter came around.  Back to the no heat issue.   Not completely blowing cold.   But the rear was blowing hot, the passenger front was warm, and the driver front was ice cold.   Took it to a different dodge dealership and told them the saga up to that point.   The service manager (Jerry, who is awesome) took the car and put it right into the shop.   Called us to tell us that the thermostat housing had a crack, the coolant was all wrong ( i fessed up and told him I replaced the thermostat and asked if that was the cause.)   He said no it didn't cause the issues.   He said they did another coolant flush and found little black chunks of crud and crap.   He took it for a 30 minute drive after replacing the thermostat and housing again and it was blowing nice and hot.   We picked it up and my wife drove it home after paying another $550 or so.   By the time we got home (about 20 minutes from the shop)  it was blowing cold again at the drivers side front.   Called Jerry and told him.   He had us bring it back right away.   Had it for about 2 weeks and another $1400 for a new radiator and coolant reservoir and another coolant flush.   Picked it up and he showed us that the reservoir and radiator were so packed with gunk that he was amazed that it had heat and wasn't overheating.   We thought we were good to go.   Nope.   A week later it was back to blowing cold in the front.   Called Jerry again and let him know.   He immediately told me to bring it back and he said we threw enough money at this thing, this next visit isn't costing us a dime.   He tore out everything.   Radiator, reservoir, thermostat, coolant lines, water pump, and the heater core.   Found the heater core clogged again.   Did some sweet talking to someone and got the heater core replaced under the part warranty.   Flushed each piece individually before installing back in the car, ran it for an hour, did 2 more flushes to make sure no more gunk was getting flushed out and it was finally starting to make heat in every vent.   Not just warm, but HOT.   We were finally good to go.   Up until 2 months later on our drive to New York ( we live in Southern pa) the temp gauge spiked at max along with check engine light, and overheat light.  Immediately pulled over and shut the car off.   Googled the nearest autozone to at least pull the cel code.   Found one 5 minutes down the road.   Started the car after only sitting 3-4 minutes and the temp gauge was back to normal but the check engine light was still on.   Didn't smell any coolant or anything burning and was still running just fine.   Got to autozone and had them hook up the scanner.   Got a code for cam position sensor, and coolant temp sensor.   We are 3 hours from home at this point.   Fortunately the guy that was helping us had a dodge journey and told us thru research of his own for his journey, that sometimes the pcm will act wonky and do retarded shit.  He erased the codes, and told us to disconnect the battery for about a half hour once we get home.  For the last hour driving up, and the whole 4 hour drive home it ran flawlessly.   Not a single hiccup or issue or anything.   The next day, I disconnected the battery like he said.   Hooked it back up an hour later (I got distracted with beer) and everything was fine again up until a month ago.  Temps started climbing while accelerating hard, or stop and go traffic, but would go down to normal when highway cruising.  Checked coolant level, made sure the thermostat was opening and closing like it should, checked to make sure the fan was turning off and on when it was supposed to.  AH HA!!   Fan not turning on.  Checked the fan resistor and the coils were exposed and the green coating was burnt away.   Replaced the resistor and the fan just to be sure.  Once again, all was well with the universe.   Up until last night.   Started overheating again while accelerating and slowly coming down while driving normal but not quite dropping to normal operating temp.   Got the car home, and at idle with it in park, it runs fine.   Fan kicks on at 219, shuts off at 212, coolant is flowing thru the radiator.   Today after work I checked the resistor and that still looks brand new.   Coolant is where its supposed to be.   No coolant in the oil, no air in the cooling system, no leaks or anything.   No white smoke coming out of the exhaust.  I'm completely baffled about what the issue is with this damn thing.   Is there anything I'm missing??   Sorry the post is a bit long, but I wanted to be as thorough as possible with all symptoms,  diagnostics, repairs, issues, everything.   Hopefully someone has some insight as to whats wrong with this turd.   Thanks in advance for any help or advice!!

[OhareFred]

For once someone has an issue and furnishes us with plenty of information!  Thank you for not having us play 60 questions..

 

Now, was the water pump replaced or just flushed? Honestly it wouldn’t make sense not to replace it but....
 

Did you replace the engine temp sensor?  You didn’t mention a boil over, so could the sensor be jacked up?

 

If your still having issues with the heat in front, were the blend doors ever checked/replaced?

 

That being said, if it isn’t any of the above I’d lean towards a head gasket......

 

let us know!!

[John/Horace]

Welcome to forum. If gauge shows overheating and it’s not it could be the temp sensor. Isn there a numeric reading in cluster and a convention analogue arrow. Are they both showing high.

 

If there was gunk floating around system it’s possible newish thermostat is plugged up again, they are cheap and not hard to replace.

 

[DodgerDan79]

Damnit!!!!   I knew after I posted it that I might have missed some details.    

 

At the beginning of everything I did do some googling and the topic of blend doors/ actuators was a possibility.   Mentioned it to the first dealership when we dropped it off the 1st time.   They said that wasn't the problem.   With how shady and lazy they were during the entire process,  my wife and I weren't too sure.   Mentioned it again to Jerry at the 2nd dealership,  and he said he'd investigate.    Told me later during one of our many phone calls that he visually inspected them AND hooked up a multimeter to them and there were no issues with those.   We have had zero issues with heat blowing thru all the vents since then.   

 

Jerry also told us that while he was taking everything apart he checked/  cleaned the water pump as well and it was perfectly fine.   He said the same about the coolant temp sensor.   Since we've been throwing so much damn money at this turd we decided that since he said they were fine, we weren't gonna have it replaced.   Now I realize that since its been about 7 months since the car has been in the garage, there is a possibility that the water pump and/or the temp sensor could have gone bad.   

 

There is a numeric display of coolant temp on the cluster along with the arrow gauge.   Both are reading accurate and confirmed by hooking up a snap on solus diagnostic scanner.   The scanner was reading the same temps as the cluster.    

 

The last time we picked the car up from the dealer it had, up until that point, 9 or 10 coolant flushes in the time we've owned it.   The last 2 were performed the day we picked it up and Jerry confirmed there wasn't a single speck of gunk or anything coming out at all.  

 

I've also thought/worried it could be head gaskets.   But like I previously mentioned, there isn't anything I've noticed that would suggest that other than the overheating only while driving, when its parked and idling it runs fine.   No coolant leaks, no white smoke or excessive water coming from the exhaust, no boiling of the coolant, no coolant smell or frothy milky crap in the oil, no loss of heat coming out of the vents.  Fan is turning off and on when it should.   Thermostat is opening and closing like it should and I can feel the coolant moving thru the upper rad hose.   

I wanna throw a grenade in the gas tank and drive it into a quarry!!!    Lol

[5rebel9]

Try a new radiator cap ! 

    Yes, ot sounds like there have been some "issues" out of the normal seen "quirks" these motors have. Of all the things said done, there's been no mention of the cap and it is a known "quirk" with ALL 3.6 motored FCA model vehicles.

   As for no heat in front dash vents, yes blend door  actuator OR a plugged heater core.... Also air entrapment in the cooling system can cause similar problems. Try a new cap and make sure to properly bleed air from the cooling system before "running down the road" with the car.

[DodgerDan79]

Okay.  I'll try the rad cap next.   That is the one thing that hasn't been replaced, cleaned, or even checked to my knowledge yet.   I honestly didn't even know the cap was a known issue with these.   

[John/Horace]

 

Bleed screw is made of plastic, it’s in housing right beside thermostat. Loosen and coolant should squirt out. Don’t over tighten it’s plastic screw in plastic housing. A bad cap could be allowing air back in system like 5rebel9:mentioned, so bleed after new cap worth trying.

[DodgerDan79]

Yeah thats how I bled the system after I replaced the thermostat.   Dealership has a rad cap in stock so im picking one up today after work.   

[5rebel9]

Try reading the thread by member JGrimm's titled 3.6 overheating after oil cooler repair (on this forum topic page). Had temp and boil over concerns and no front heat... was tracked down to improper system air bleed and bad rad cap. You may want to follow the steps of "bleeding" he took to not risk damaging the plastic "bleeder screw".

    Yes, I got involved with that members thread also.....

Edited October 8, 2020 by 5rebel9

[DodgerDan79]

Okay after reading that thread it seems that a new rad cap and bleeding the system is the next step in this Neverending cycle of "WHAT THE HELL CAN GO WRONG NEXT" that is my wife's journey!!!    Lol

 

I'll update once that's done.   

[DodgerDan79]

Not much of an update.   Had to replace the cap in the wife's job's parking lot.   She told me it was a little low on coolant when she got to work.   But the temps didn't climb at all.   But she works 7 minutes from home so I wasn't surprised about that.   Got a gallon of coolant (the 50/50 mix) just in case.   Got to her work, replaced the cap, and topped off the coolant.   (It was about a 1/4 inch below the cold line.   Started it up.  Let get up to temp, bled the system, a few small air bubbles but nothing alarming.   Let it get up to 219° and the fan kicked on, and shut down when it dropped to 212°.   Thermostat opened and shut like normal, everything ran fine.  Let it build to 219° again and the fan kicked on, and shut down at 212° again.   Bled it again.   Nothing but coolant.    Will take it for a drive tomorrow after I get off work and see how it handles actual driving for a good trip and see if the overheating comes back.   

[5rebel9]

How about heat from the front vents? Did that come back?

[JGrimm]

Hi I see my thread was referenced lol, so I'm gonna ask if you let the engine sit for 24hrs with the rad cap off the reservoir yet? I had never even heard of doing that before but my Russian neighbor who was a mechanic in the mother country, said that if you have air in a component that is far from the bleed screw that the screw can actually trick you into thinking the systems been bleed when it actually hasn't and the best thing to do it what I just mentioned. If the Rad cap is left off, Physics will causes any big pockets of trapped air to escape via the reservoir. So I had bled our journey via the screw and it was pissing coolant, so that means the air has been purged right? Wrong! That night I filled the reservoir to the brim, and left it. 24hours later the entire thing was dry and the car ate, I shit you not, an entire gallon of coolant before it reached the cold fil line. So there was a TON of air in the system. It was only after doing that and replacing the Rad Cap did the car begin working properly again.
Also I rented a Combustion Block Tester from O'Reilys to check for a head gasket leak just for peace of mind, it's super easy to test. Mine came back negative. 

[DodgerDan79]

Yeah the heat coming from the vents has been fine since the last time we picked it up from the dealership.   Ice cold from all vents when the AC is on.   And nice and hot from all vents when the heat is on.  

 

I've never heard of leaving the car sit for 24 hours with the rad cap off.   I'll have to try that this weekend.   And maybe try to find an O'Reilly to rent one of those block testers.    I REALLY hope the head gaskets aren't the issue.   I'd rather get a rectal exam from Edward Scissorhands that replace the head gaskets.   Lol

 

 

[DodgerDan79]

Okay, sorry I didn't update yesterday.    Took it for a 40 minute drive to a flea market with the family.  Driving down was uneventful.   Temps topped at about 220°  not ideal, but not bad either.   And that happened while we were crawling thru the lot looking for a spot.   On the way home is another story.   Climbed up to about 245° accelerating up hills, and dropped to about 212°-215° cruising on straight flat stretches.   Got it home and the coolant was leaking out the 90° piece of hose from the neck of the coolant resevoir and the fan was almost like it sounded like going overboard with it vibrating the steering wheel.    Never heard a fan sound like that before.   Let it sit for about 20 minutes and slowly removed the rad cap, and the coolant was almost at the bottom of the reservoir.   Dumped the rest of the gallon i had which took it to about an inch above the upper cold range line.  Then let it sit overnight with the cap off like jgrimm suggested.   Checked it this morning and fluid level is right at the top line of the cold range.    Gonna take my car and go grab another gallon of coolant while letting it sit a bit longer and go hunt down a combustion block tester and see what that tells me.   

[5rebel9]

Do you mean it was leaking out an overflow vent on the res? 

  And yes, from what I understand of your update that there was still air in the cooling system. Also sounds like the rad fan motor may be on its way out.

  Another thing to consider about temp readings, is that multiple "boil overs" can damage the coolant temp sensor that sends readings to the dash...may not be entirely accurate.

   Hang in there and please keep us updated!   

[DodgerDan79]

Yeah.   A vent in the neck.   With a rubber 90° tube that's maybe 2 inches long.   I just replaced that fan about a month ago with a new one.   Good thing I kept the old one.   Coolant temp sensor is next on the list.   I just picked up a combustion block tester.   Gonna do that when i get home this afternoon and see where that goes....

[DodgerDan79]

Okay so got a combustion block tester from advanced auto.   Looks fairly straight forward except it doesn't have a bowl for the top of the cylinder.   It has a rubber line thats supposed to hook up to a vacuum line on the car.   Where would I hook it up at??

[DodgerDan79]

[DodgerDan79]

Well, doesn't look good.    What do you guys think???

[DodgerDan79]

Coolant level climbed in the reservoir and got sucked into the tester cylinder.    Pulled the tester out of the reservoir,  and held up to the sky and it didn't look as blue.    Should've got a picture before I dumped the tube.   Ill do it again tomorrow when I have more time during the day.  

[2late4u]

had to google this as have never used one before, well the fluid doesn't look yellow or clear,of course it doesn't look blue either,,,, more green color, i would remove more of the org coolant before doing your next test,good luck

[DodgerDan79]

Not good.   That was at the point of idling for 20-25 minutes and the temp at ~215°  i recorded a video,  and it went from blue, to yellow, back to blue again before I shut it down.    

Edited October 11, 2020 by DodgerDan79

[5rebel9]

Ouch, that's a bummer. At this point, I personally would look into a GOOD used motor. Either way would be a lot of work, but if you just do the "upper end" and even heads(you won't know until disassembly) that you're still "gambling".  I didn't catch anywhere on the mileage of this vehicle.

   Good Luck in how you proceed.

[DodgerDan79]

The vehicle has 109,xxx miles on it.   Personally, I'd rather do the head gaskets, and while it's apart the water pump and temp sensor, rather than gamble on a used engine.   Im not shy about tearing it apart.   Ive rebuilt engines from the ground up already.  So the work involved in doing the head gaskets doesn't make me nervous at all.   I was just hoping and praying that they weren't the problem!!   Lol.