Hidiety Posted October 10, 2020 Report Share Posted October 10, 2020 So it's just one thing after another right now. I haven't 100% confirmed that that seal is the source of the leak but it certainly seems to be the case. I am posting this to get an idea of what kind of job I'm about to take on. She's a 2009 DJ SXT 3.5L FWD. If anyone reading this has some solid links to share about fixing it I would appreciate it. Google pulls up different engine sizes so I can't be sure if the info is accurate to my car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John/Horace Posted October 10, 2020 Report Share Posted October 10, 2020 Front main seal behind crank pulley correct. Sometimes black light die added to eng oil for leak location. Haven’t changed one on a 3.5 dodge, but have changed on other engines. Remove surpentine belt and plastic fender liner for front eng access. Impact gun to remove crank pulley bolt, often very tight, like 180 pounds. Pulley usually walks off without puller, just light tapping, there will be a straight key that needs attention. Lip seal removing tool or large screw driver is used to pop out old seal, need to avoid scratching sealing surface during process. There are lip seal installing kits for new seal. Often a large socket can be used to tap in new seal, lube lightly with oil. Also lube contact surface on inner seal before reinstalling crank pulley and key way. Clean area where seal was with Scotchbrite before starting new seal install. Torque wrench for crank bolt, wedge pipe etc into pulley spokes against block to allow tightening (or chain strap wrench with hose to protect outer pulley groves from damage). jkeaton 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hidiety Posted October 10, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2020 Thanks for the tips. One thing I am wondering about is if the bolt is a left or right handed thread. Without going out there and looking I think the engine turns CCW. Sadly, there is no way that an impact is getting on that bolt. I have a 36 inch breaker bar that I call "The Negotiator" for those bolts that need a little extra persuasion though. I initially thought this job would be much worse than it seems it will be. (knock on wood) After watching a few videos on how to do it on other engines, and your tips here confirming them I think it's a fix I can handle. Let's just hope I can get to it before spending a fortune on oil. I used some Marvel Mystery Oil the other day to hopefully help my problem with oil not getting to the rear valves and it seems to have expedited the leaking. Valve knock is a lot better though, so that's good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John/Horace Posted October 10, 2020 Report Share Posted October 10, 2020 (edited) Not a crazy job usually. Cost is mainly labor, part $10 ish. If engine has a knock then crank has an issue with too much run out. Seal change is a band aid and will leak again probably. https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/dodge,2009,journey,3.5l+v6,1442283,engine,crankshaft+seal,5604 Edited October 10, 2020 by John/Horace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John/Horace Posted October 10, 2020 Report Share Posted October 10, 2020 Switch to heavier oil like 10w40 or 10w50 if needed, temporarily. Crank are always standard right hand thread. So righty tightly lefty loose. Sometimes there is a plastic plug in the sheet metal that pops out so an extension and socket on impact can be used. Or plastic shields remove and motor mount removed with engine supported and lowered a few inches for access. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hidiety Posted October 10, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2020 Thanks for the tips John/Horace. I'm hoping to get under there tomorrow and swap it out. I did an oil change 2 days ago and I have already lost a quart +. The knock I hear seems to be from a valve lifter sticking. At least from what I have been told by another car guy and a video I found on YouTube it seems to be the issue. The video just demonstrated what it would sound like and it was exactly like my engine. The images I shared in this thread kinda confirm that to me as well, but I'm no engine guru. I would love to talk to someone who knows about these things and get it figured out. Perhaps this should go in another thread though, or in my DM's. I'm going to google this, but would you care to elaborate on what you mean by "crank has an issue with too much run out" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John/Horace Posted October 11, 2020 Report Share Posted October 11, 2020 When crankshaft main bearings get too much clearance they get extra movement or travel in a side to side direction. This is called run out and can be measured with special tools. There is a spec, but when it gets excessive it starts to make seals leak. If you use a pry bar on the crankshaft pulley there should be almost no horizontal or in and out movement detected. There are two main seals, a front behind crank pulley and rear that needs to be changed with transmission removed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hidiety Posted October 12, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2020 Ok so I want to melt this engine down for scrap at this point. Not only is there no information about how to repair it, it doesn't follow the rules like most engines. The damn seal is behind the timing gear. Yeah, fml. 2 hour job has about 6hours into it so far and all I've managed to do its take the cover off. I did find out through an incomplete set of videos about this engine, that there is a specific puller you are supposed to use for the crankshaft pulley. I got it off with a regular one but it was a fight for sure. I am definitely looking forward to getting the pully back on too. The thing is a press fit so that sounds fun! And just too add insult to injury, there isn't nearly enough oil in the timing housing to explain the amount of oil I am losing. While it is in fact leaking and needs replaced, I think that the main leak is coming from the passenger side of the oil pan instead. Looking forward to that. I guess the silver lining to all this is that I'll be able to reset my timing since I have to take it completely apart to do a fancy O-ring. So frustrated, and down a vehicle, to not even fully address the issue I wanted to. Oh and I found this odd so I'm mentioning it, the water pump is powered by the timing belt on this engine. WTF? I've said it before and I'll say it again, I no wiz at engines but that some how doesn't make sense to me. Wish me luck, and if you hear about an Iowa man who went insane fixing a Journey, there's a good chance it's me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2late4u Posted October 12, 2020 Report Share Posted October 12, 2020 sorry to say this but i really look forward to your post and hoping you are going to say got it done, i really feel bad for you as you seem to have my luck on fixing things, but hang in there sounds like you are beginning to see the light at the end of the tunnel,just hope it isn't the train tho...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John/Horace Posted October 12, 2020 Report Share Posted October 12, 2020 (edited) Timing very tricky on double cams engines if you haven’t done it before. Put it back together. Rear main seal , the passenger side bigger leak needs tranny removal which is not a typical diy job. Motor was not maintained and has major issues. Sucks. Could try snake oil leak sealer for now see if it slows it down. Edited October 12, 2020 by John/Horace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hidiety Posted October 14, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2020 Little update: I haven't been able to fix it yet but I am more calm about it lol. I went out and bought a harmonic balancer puller and installer to get the timing gear off as well as be able to install it correctly. I was lucky enough that it came with the correct studs but not lucky enough to have the studs spaced close enough to attach the puller. Turns out I know a guy who knows a guy with the properly sized puller/installer so he is going to come lend me a hand. Since it is up on stands right now I used some engine degreaser and cleaned up the leakage pretty well. When I went back the next morning there was a very slow leak coming from the power steering, so that will need to be addressed at some point. Still not a big enough leak to justify how wet the engine was, and the oil is drained out right now so I can't see anything on the oil pan gasket but I'll get'er figured out. @2late4u Thanks for the encouragement. I will be getting this done. Hopefully tomorrow, and I will be sure to let y'all know about it. @John/Horace I feel comfortable setting the timing. Pretty straight forward process, just line up to TDC and then the cams to their respective notches. My helper also knows how to do these things from what I was told. I'll do it myself but I'll let him double check my work and such. The transmission is on the drivers side on this vehicle. I do agree that the rear seal would be beyond my skill / tool set though. It does seem that proper care was not given to the engine. I won't be using any oil leak sealer in her though. I already have an issue with oil getting to the rockers and don't want to risk making that worse. John/Horace and 2late4u 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John/Horace Posted October 15, 2020 Report Share Posted October 15, 2020 Stressful times with a car off line, I’ve been there before. The seal leak stuff is suppose to rejuvenate the rubber seals to make them seal better, probably swell slightly. Can’t reduce oil flow or engine gets damaged. Replacing seals like you are doing is only real way to fix permanently. Maybe consider new timing belt if you have everything apart already. It’s $’s but if it breaks the motor is usually wrecked on interference engines. Knock issues makes it tricky decision for more investment. Paint marking belt and cam and crank teeth before removal is a good double check for keeping timing, some experienced mechanics do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hidiety Posted October 18, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2020 So my helping hand ghosted me. Decided to just bite the bullet and take it in to a shop. Hopefully it doesn't hurt the wallet too much. 2late4u 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5rebel9 Posted October 18, 2020 Report Share Posted October 18, 2020 Sorry to hear of extra hands "bailing out" on you. Yup timing belt and the crank seal on that end does get rather involving, I hope the labor rates around you at shops are not too high. Good Luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2late4u Posted October 18, 2020 Report Share Posted October 18, 2020 got to admit you did hang in there a long time working on it,hope you get off light as well OhareFred 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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