2009 JOURNEY SXT STARTING ISSUE

[Tamy1119]

HI all..

My Husband is an ASE Certified BMW Master Tech and can usually figure most things out.. But this one has him a bit stymied...

Here is the issue in his words:

 

2009 Dodge Journey SXT 3.5L SOHC FWD, intermittent no crank.

One of your own looking for some advice on this one. I'm ASE certified for this crap, do electrical diagnostics almost daily. Cannot figure this one out.

Car belongs to a friend that has been hit hard by the pandemic, trying to help her out. Started in September 2020, she told me the car wouldn't start and had to get it jumped, it started then but the next stop she made, after she turned it off, it wouldn't start again, had to get a jump again. I brought it into my shop, made sure the battery was good and charged, couldn't duplicate the issue. Few days later, she says same thing. I pick it up, drive it around, shut it off when it is good and warm, and let it sit for a few minutes, then try to start it, clunk. I can hear the starter armature extend and engage, but won't spin. Do a couple tests and decide the starter solenoid has too much internal resistance. Replaced the starter, couldn't get it to do it again.

Fast forward to a month ago, it's doing the same thing again. A little miffed, I pick up the car, drive it around, shut it off while it's hot and get the same clunk. The starter armature is definitely extending, it doesn't spin. I rip that starter out and replace it again, figuring it was a bad rebuild, returned that one.

Starts like a charm, drive it around a while and can't get it to fail again. Probably started it 50 times in varying conditions before I gave it back to her. A couple days later, there she is in my texts again WTF!!!! Brought it in again and rechecked everything. Pulled off all the positive and negative cables and cleaned all the contact points, put it back together and tested for voltage drop on positive and negative circuits all the way from the battery to the starter and back. Nothing!

The cables near the battery looked a bit rusty, so I replaced the battery cable assembly from the battery to the jump points and fuse block. Again, started up just fine for me the rest of that day and the next.

That was yesterday. 830 this morning, she texts again, at her daughter's school and it won't start again. About 20 minutes later, she tried again and it fired right up.

I am losing my mind over this thing. Battery is providing more than enough amps, circuits seem to be ok. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

[5rebel9]

To answer a wonderfully worded account of FAILURES.....

   I'm surprised that NO MENTION of checking battery(LOAD TEST) and alternator output was done or mentioned. ALSO being a BMW tech, he should know that car batteries today do NOT LAST much beyond 4 years now. NO MENTION again of battery, which provides the "juice" to spin the starter motor.

[Tamy1119]

Sorry... should have mentioned... 

The Battery was replaced a couple of months by the owner and not my Husband, the Tech....

But, I am unsure of the brand of battery and I know I've seen it mentioned that cheap batteries, well you get what you pay for...

I will mention this to him.. see what he says.. THANKS..

Any other ideas are welcome...

 

 

 

 

[2late4u]

would be a good idea for the  check on the battery and to make sure the cables are clean and tight, journeys do like their juice.other than that hard to say what else could be wrong,, some after market parts sometimes dont work as good as the oem parts do,,,good luck please report back on what he finds to cure the problem for other people that might find themselves in a problem like this

Edited March 29, 2021 by 2late4u

[OhareFred]

Definitely have him test the battery with an ELECTRONIC battery tester, one that can print battery health as well as charge, etc.  He’ll know what I mean.  Even a new battery can crap out in a very short amount of time, as he is well aware.
 

Now all that battery crap sorted out, I know Jeep has an issue with their newer Cherokees where the starter relay has issues when really cold or hot. Works fine in between but not in those other conditions.  Maddening.  Maybe he can swap a relay around (maybe for the rear defroster or some other non critical component) and see if it goes away, or just swap in a new one.  That’s all I got. As stated these new cars are VERY voltage sensitive and it sounds like he checked everything else....

[2late4u]

3 hours ago, OhareFred said:

Definitely have him test the battery with an ELECTRONIC battery tester, one that can print battery health as well as charge, etc.  He’ll know what I mean.  Even a new battery can crap out in a very short amount of time, as he is well aware.
 

Now all that battery crap sorted out, I know Jeep has an issue with their newer Cherokees where the starter relay has issues when really cold or hot. Works fine in between but not in those other conditions.  Maddening.  Maybe he can swap a relay around (maybe for the rear defroster or some other non critical component) and see if it goes away, or just swap in a new one.  That’s all I got. As stated these new cars are VERY voltage sensitive and it sounds like he checked everything else....

2009 journey

[John/Horace]

Tough issue when it’s not starting some where else. In your shop could check voltage drop etc that would eliminate things.

 

Im guessing not two bad starters in a row.  It sounds like a hot soak condition; not starting after car has been running and turned off.  When it’s not starting need to remove starter relay and jumper I think 30 to 87 contacts, forcing on starter and bypassing all safety stuff like key switch security, transmission range selector switch etc.

 

If it still doesn’t turn over its cables or starter related problem. If it now turns over it’s key fob, or transmission neutral switch problem or TIPM.

Putting car in neutral sometimes helps proves range switch issue but not always.  TIPM module with random no starts another possibility. Make up a jumper pigtail to prove failure before buying part. More common on early journeys. Try different key fob to eliminate security. Good luck.

Edited March 30, 2021 by John/Horace

[Evlmarine]

I had the same issue with the wife's Journey this weekend, turns out the positive battery terminal was 80% corroded, replaced it with a new one, also replaced spark plugs and ignition coil packs (link below) and that basically solved my issues.

 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07P98RC9W/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_glc_fabc_3W7DPXJVYCQYNF41MK4Z?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

[DarthDoge]

Having the same issue.  Also an Auto Service Tech.  Power from starter relay to pull-in/hold-in winding will only light a test light for a second or less when the no start occurs.  During a normal start it lights up for 2-3 seconds and obviously starts.  Since I have a test lead to the starter solenoid, I can jump it to positive and engage starter manually.  When vehicle won't start and I jumper the starter, IT WILL NOT START.  The last time it happened I went to grab my DVOM in the back of shop, started.  Fire trucks are red !  It is very intermittent.  At least it is my wife's vehicle and it usually starts if it sits for a few minutes or randomly wants to.  I have cold soaked it, hot soaked it, scanned PCM, etc.  Other than the short burst of light and the fact jumpering starter doesn't work, I am at a loss.  In my mind it is either the switch (wireless ignition node) OR pcm.  Anyone else figure this one out yet ?

[John/Horace]

Jumping relay is to isolate if problem is safety circuit or actual starter unit  itself.  

If starter is always engaging it’s,  probably  TIPM, crank sensor or other wire harness preventing fuel or spark.

 

If not turning starter when manually triggering relay, it must be starter internal issue or bad connections on ground or high amp feed cables.
 

 

 

Edited May 22, 2022 by John/Horace

[DianeC13]

On 2022-05-22 at 11:37 AM, John/Horace said:

Jumping relay is to isolate if problem is safety circuit or actual starter unit  itself.  

If starter is always engaging it’s,  probably  TIPM, crank sensor or other wire harness preventing fuel or spark.

 

If not turning starter when manually triggering relay, it must be starter internal issue or bad connections on ground or high amp feed cables.
 

 

 

I had this intermittently shortly after purchasing 1 year ago.  One day it would not start.  Replaced starter.  Now, rarely it does the clunk thing.  Starts right way after.  It may seem crazy but it seems like if you don't just roll through the whole starting thing or get interrupted, then it happens (based on my experience). It was like an older car I had where you had to hit the solonoid with something hard to get it to move to a good spot. But I don't know anything.  Other times it is like a computer issue where it's like the computer needs to reset itself.