Growl / Loud Gear Noise During Moderate Acceleration

[tsteves5]

I recently acquired a 2011 Journey 3.6 AWD 6-speed with 140,000 miles.  I've been sorting out some different issues on the vehicle, but one particular sound has me stumped.  It's a loud growl / gear type noise that only occurs during moderate and hard accelerations from stop and then the sound fades out at about 30 MPH.  The sound does not occur during light acceleration.  It doesn't seem to matter if you're going straight or turning.  I've been looking around the forum and internet and seen acceleration noises tied to wheel bearings, CV joints, power steering pumps, PTUs, and even tires but none of them seem to be a good match to what I'm hearing.  The tires are all the same size, but the rears are more worn that the front tires.  I've never owned an AWD vehicle before.  Is this noise typical for AWD vehicles, or should I be concerned?

 

I recorded a video of the sound during moderate and light accelerations.

 

I welcome any thoughts and suggestions.

 

Thank you for your time!

 

 

 

 

[2late4u]

i would say wheel bearings , they can go bad and sound different at different times depending on the load from the vech

[tsteves5]

3 hours ago, 2late4u said:

i would say wheel bearings , they can go bad and sound different at different times depending on the load from the vech

 

Thanks for the quick reply.  It sure would be great if it were a wheel bearing.  Looking at the service manual, they don't look terribly difficult to replace either.

[John/Horace]

A Bad Wheel bearing often follows the speed of the vehicle as a droning noise. Usually the faster the speed the louder it gets, doesn’t fade away in my experience.

Try checking the front ptu and rear transfer case oil levels. No dip stick on front ptu so you have to drain and fill to get correct level.  Very little oil involved, 75w90 used for both. Search forum for oil change instructions.

[tsteves5]

39 minutes ago, John/Horace said:

A Bad Wheel bearing often follows the speed of the vehicle as a droning noise. Usually the faster the speed the louder it gets, doesn’t fade away in my experience.

Try checking the front ptu and rear transfer case oil levels. No dip stick on front ptu so you have to drain and fill to get correct level.  Very little oil involved, 75w90 used for both. Search forum for oil change instructions.

 

Thanks for the suggestion.  In my original post, I neglected to mention that I've already changed the PTU and rear transfer case oil.  The noise did not change.  I also didn't see any metal shavings on either of the magnets, just some metal sludge that's consistent with what I've seen accumulated on healthy transmission magnets in the past.

[John/Horace]

Transaxle on transmission output can be noisy. Has transmission oil been changed as well.  How was magnet in the pan.

 

You have reved engine in park to make sure it’s not coming off one of the engine components.?

[tsteves5]

42 minutes ago, John/Horace said:

Transaxle on transmission output can be noisy. Has transmission oil been changed as well.  How was magnet in the pan.

 

You have reved engine in park to make sure it’s not coming off one of the engine components.?

 

The transmission fluid was pretty dark.  I've changed it once already by sucking it out through the fill hole and refilling (got about 4.5 of the 9 quarts).  I plan to drop the pan and replace the filter and fluid again within the next week.  I haven't seen the transmission magnet yet.

 

I have reved the engine in park.  The sound only occurs when the vehicle is moving.

Edited April 12, 2021 by tsteves5

[John/Horace]

Magnet is either built into the replaceable filter in the pan, or it is a separate ferrite magnet stuck to bottom of pan.

 

 

[2late4u]

20 hours ago, John/Horace said:

A Bad Wheel bearing often follows the speed of the vehicle as a droning noise. Usually the faster the speed the louder it gets, doesn’t fade away in my experience.

Try checking the front ptu and rear transfer case oil levels. No dip stick on front ptu so you have to drain and fill to get correct level.  Very little oil involved, 75w90 used for both. Search forum for oil change instructions.

i just had an experience with my daughter patriot, she had already had both front and left rear wheel bearings replaced and developed a loud noise and it wasnt a droning noise or grinding but sounded more like a thumping noise that got louder with speed until you got to around 50 mph and then would quite down a bit, her regular mech said her right side wheel bearing was good as he had checked it out  and that it was her rear end going out,anyways long story short i put it in the dealership expecting a 2500 repair bill and they called and said it was her right side wheel bearing was bad even tho  while spinning it while on a lift it made no noise.... so that 2500 bill ended up being just around 400 which is high for a wheel bearing it was a lot different than what i was expecting

[John/Horace]

Without weight on a bearing it’s often hard to tell if it’s worn at the early stages.

Which is why some better shops use a vibration analysis tool to isolate which bearing is bad without guessing.

 

Later stages often play can be found in hub with tire off the ground, manually.

Audio clip not great way to try and diagnose a wheel bearing IMO.

 

The google says.....  The classic sounds of a bad wheel bearing are cyclic chirping, squealing and/or growling noise. You can also tell that the sound is related to wheel bearings if it changes in proportion to vehicle speed. The sound can get worse with every turn, or it can disappear momentarily.May 14, 2019

 

Edited April 13, 2021 by John/Horace

[John/Horace]

C/V shafts can have a varying sound that goes away at certain speeds sometimes. There are 3 shafts on Journey.

After market not that expensive, even new after market which aren’t quite a good IMO as OEM.

 

[tsteves5]

25 minutes ago, John/Horace said:

C/V shafts can have a varying sound that goes away at certain speeds sometimes. There are 3 shafts on Journey.

After market not that expensive, even new after market which aren’t quite a good IMO as OEM.

 

 

When you say there are three shafts, are you referring to the left C/V, right C/V, and intermediate shafts for the front of the vehicle?

 

[John/Horace]

Yes. I'm ignoring AWD shaft for now. Could paint mark connections on it, remove the and drive without it to eliminate that. Unlike c\v shafts. There's a flex coupling on one end, could inspect it. 

[tsteves5]

I finally had a chance over the weekend to drop the transmission pan.  It doesn't have a magnet, but the bottom of the pan was very clean.  I also took apart the oil filter and didn't see any visible metal particles in the filter material.  There was no change in the moderate/hard acceleration noise after changing the filter and fluid.

 

I also inspected the intermediate shaft bearing and did not detect any play.  The rear rubber driveshaft coupler is in good shape too.  I didn't see any issues with CV boots anywhere.

 

I did find a broken front motor mount and replaced it.  I was really hoping that was the cause, but it did not fix the issue either.

 

Since the issue only occurs while the car is moving and under torque I can't replicate it in my garage.  I might have to invest in something like this, so I can listen to different parts of the car while driving.  Has anyone used something like this before for diagnosing issues while driving?

https://www.steelmantools.com/cassisear-combo-kit

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/6-Channel-Car-Electronic-Stethoscope-Kit-Engine-Noise-Diagnostic-Finder-Tool/174392990876

[John/Horace]

Great transmission news. The really expensive item you can’t fix your self seems to be ok. Surprised there is no magnet in pan, most pans I have dropped have one. Some people even add a second magnet to help trap filings. Noise should be something on the cheaper end of things. 

 

The vibration analysis equip you listed could be used for wheel bearings via the spindle housing or main crank shaft bearings via block measurements.. Spinning shafts like c/v or drive shafts would be measured with an ultrasonic very expensive sensing device. Bearings are bench marked when new then periodically measured for progressive wear over time. Really meant for high end air compressors and other critical components in $ factory equipment. Kinda hard to justify for $125 c/v shafts etc.

Source of noise is going to be a little tricky to isolate.

 

https://www.cbmconnect.com/ultrasonic-predictive-maintenance-monitoring-bearing-wear/

 

https://www.googleadservices.com/pagead/aclk?sa=L&ai=DChcSEwizjIigwInwAhWxbG8EHcWkALcYABAFGgJqZg&ohost=www.google.ca&cid=CAASEuRo66NCc52z-b9b15AZXGqKEQ&sig=AOD64_3u5_5AFAIH6wdxBJtDogi0Hg4e6g&ctype=5&q=&ved=2ahUKEwjQzYGgwInwAhUHWs0KHRhHBKwQ5bgDegQIARBA&adurl=

 

On front wheel drive cars I have isolated c/v or bearing noises by jacking one wheel in the air and running car at medium speed.

A little un-nerving but the car will stay put as spider gears slip. The Side generating noise should become obvious. AWD would how ever require removing driveshaft to do this.

Sometimes the c/v boots are not leaking grease yet, but the bearings are still at early wear stages and generating noise. You may have to drive longer for the sound to become more pronounced so you can isolate it. It doesn’t seem like a catastrophic failure item.

 

Edited April 19, 2021 by John/Horace

[tsteves5]

I finally solved this noise issue.  Long story short, it ended up having a total of two broken motor mounts instead of just the one that I originally found.  The passenger-side mount was broken right under the bracket and you couldn't really see that it was broken unless someone held down the brake with the car in drive and revved up the engine.

 

The engine was rocking back too far in the engine compartment and something must have been rubbing on/near the firewall area causing the noise issue during moderate/hard acceleration.  Just revving the engine in drive in my garage would cause the top of the throttle body to come very close to the top of the cowl.

 

Thank you to everyone who responded with suggestions.  I can see there is a wealth of knowledge in this forum.

[2late4u]

thanks for reporting back what you found to be the reason of your problem so many dont bother,great info for others with this problem

[rskousen]

I really appreciate those who have posted on this thread. It was a real lifesaver for me. Like tsteves5, I also had a grinding sound when turning corners and when going up hill in my Dodge Journey.

 

The problem was a broken motor mount on the passenger side. As soon as I replaced it, the noise went away (and the car's engine noise was also noticeably quieter).

 

Richard

[tsteves5]

I'm glad that it helped.