Dodge Journey won’t start

[Ray Ray]

Hello,

 

I was driving for 7 hours before my Dodge Journey 2009 AWD SXT suddenly stopped an hour away from my destination. I was driving 80 - 90 miles per hour on the highway and the engine light came on so I pulled over immediately and then the car just shut off and hasn’t started since. My husband had just changed the alternator a few days before we left. The engine light is still on and when we tried to start the car it would just click, click, click. So he changed the starter and now it just makes a sound like it wants to start but can’t. We are lost and have no clue what’s wrong. Any ideas? Anything we should try? We also put a brand new battery in as well. Lights still work and windows row up and down, air conditioning works too.

[John/Horace]

Always start with scanning for codes to avoid throwing parts at a car.  The CPS crank position sensor doesn’t always set a code when it fails,  and is around $30 part , oem is best. At high mileage over a 100k miles I just change them to avoid getting stuck, becomes a wear item from heat and vibration it seems.

[5rebel9]

Sorry to say this, but as an 09 and probably high(+100k miles), but this is the 3.5 TIMING BELT driven engine and there's a good chance that the timing belt broke. And at the speed posted of when it happened, the motor is probably shot.

[John/Horace]

Pulling the upper half of one of the plastic timing covers should expose the timing belt. If It’s either shredded or jumped a few teeth then it’s really bad news. Sometimes if they jump on start up with out engine actually running, the piston doesn’t hit valves and engine can be salvaged. Long shot.

[Ray Ray]

On 8/25/2021 at 3:34 PM, John/Horace said:

Always start with scanning for codes to avoid throwing parts at a car.  The CPS crank position sensor doesn’t always set a code when it fails,  and is around $30 part , oem is best. At high mileage over a 100k miles I just change them to avoid getting stuck, becomes a wear item from heat and vibration it seems.

The CPS crank position sensor? So would that also cause the engine light to come on?

[Ray Ray]

On 8/25/2021 at 5:03 PM, 5rebel9 said:

Sorry to say this, but as an 09 and probably high(+100k miles), but this is the 3.5 TIMING BELT driven engine and there's a good chance that the timing belt broke. And at the speed posted of when it happened, the motor is probably shot.

I’m going to have to agree with you ? I am really devastated if that is the case. I only had the car for almost a year so this really sucks. 

[Ray Ray]

On 8/25/2021 at 5:38 PM, John/Horace said:

Pulling the upper half of one of the plastic timing covers should expose the timing belt. If It’s either shredded or jumped a few teeth then it’s really bad news. Sometimes if they jump on start up with out engine actually running, the piston doesn’t hit valves and engine can be salvaged. Long shot.

Ok I will check it

[Armando G]

Geezzzz.... these responses seem to be worse case scenarios. How about starting with the basics. Home install of the alternator, could be a loose screw that isn't making good contact (we've all done it). Are the battery terminals nice and tight, and clean? Is the battery itself good? Again, just because it's new, doesn't mean there isn't an issue.

Verify what you have done before assuming what it could be. Hopefully it isn't a major item... good luck. 

[5rebel9]

1 hour ago, Armando G said:

Geezzzz.... these responses seem to be worse case scenarios. How about starting with the basics. Home install of the alternator, could be a loose screw that isn't making good contact (we've all done it). Are the battery terminals nice and tight, and clean? Is the battery itself good? Again, just because it's new, doesn't mean there isn't an issue.

Verify what you have done before assuming what it could be. Hopefully it isn't a major item... good luck. 

HOPEFULLY  the member will post back soon as to what they found with checking for the timing belt and then go from there.,

[jkeaton]

On 8/28/2021 at 11:21 AM, Armando G said:

Geezzzz.... these responses seem to be worse case scenarios. How about starting with the basics. Home install of the alternator, could be a loose screw that isn't making good contact (we've all done it). Are the battery terminals nice and tight, and clean? Is the battery itself good? Again, just because it's new, doesn't mean there isn't an issue.

Verify what you have done before assuming what it could be. Hopefully it isn't a major item... good luck. 

 

And hopefully get the code read so she's not throwing more parts at it. 

[5rebel9]

On 8/28/2021 at 11:21 AM, Armando G said:

Geezzzz.... these responses seem to be worse case scenarios. How about starting with the basics. Home install of the alternator, could be a loose screw that isn't making good contact (we've all done it). Are the battery terminals nice and tight, and clean? Is the battery itself good? Again, just because it's new, doesn't mean there isn't an issue.

Verify what you have done before assuming what it could be. Hopefully it isn't a major item... good luck. 

although I'm "retired" from the "trade", I still have contacts that see this scenario MANY times. I also am on other forums that use this SAME motor with many posts of same scenario, and 99% of the time it is a broken TIMING BELT. Sorry that I did not respond with how to check it(and it's not hard to do) as member john/ Horace posted after me on how to do.

 Maintenance wise the only worse motor to deal with ahead of the 3.5 is the 2.7 (thankfully not offered in the DJ) in my "book".

  CORRECT, don't just throw parts at a problem in HOPES, do the BASICS of diagnosis FIRST.

   I truly hope the OP comes back with an update as to what they have found.

Edited August 30, 2021 by 5rebel9

[Ray Ray]

On 8/28/2021 at 8:21 AM, Armando G said:

Geezzzz.... these responses seem to be worse case scenarios. How about starting with the basics. Home install of the alternator, could be a loose screw that isn't making good contact (we've all done it). Are the battery terminals nice and tight, and clean? Is the battery itself good? Again, just because it's new, doesn't mean there isn't an issue.

Verify what you have done before assuming what it could be. Hopefully it isn't a major item... good luck. 

I was thinking that as well because husband never changed an alternator before and he squeezed the belt back on because he couldn’t reach the thing that loosens the belt attached to the alternator 

[Ray Ray]

Guys, I’m heading down there tonight. Will keep you updated ❤️

[John/Horace]

You need to line up crank pulley at top dead centre, notch on pulley lined up at mark on lower timing cover.

 

Both intake and exhaust cams will also have a timing mark on pulley and matching spot on head casting.

All three timing marks should be right on together. Out by one tooth or more and car won’t run, timing out of range.

 

Hopefully it’s not a belt issue. Lots of other stuff to check like fuel pump, if belt is still ok.

[5rebel9]

Agree'd , BUT just so anyone following this saga knows ......

   The timing belt and water pump and belt tensioner are recommended to be replaced EVERY 105k MILES OR 7 years whichever comes first. It's a pretty big job in the sideways mounting of the drivetrain of the Journey. AND why I jumped on so hard about it and it SHOULD be looked at early on to be sure it is hopefully OK and then go on with checking other things BEFORE throwing in a lot of parts in HOPES.

[Ray Ray]

12 hours ago, John/Horace said:

You need to line up crank pulley at top dead centre, notch on pulley lined up at mark on lower timing cover.

 

Both intake and exhaust cams will also have a timing mark on pulley and matching spot on head casting.

All three timing marks should be right on together. Out by one tooth or more and car won’t run, timing out of range.

 

Hopefully it’s not a belt issue. Lots of other stuff to check like fuel pump, if belt is still ok.

Ok I will pass this on to my husband. Thank you so much for ur help. Will keep u updated. We just got to the car. Once we charge the battery maybe I can send you guys a video of what it sounds like when it tries to start too

[Ray Ray]

11 hours ago, 5rebel9 said:

Agree'd , BUT just so anyone following this saga knows ......

   The timing belt and water pump and belt tensioner are recommended to be replaced EVERY 105k MILES OR 7 years whichever comes first. It's a pretty big job in the sideways mounting of the drivetrain of the Journey. AND why I jumped on so hard about it and it SHOULD be looked at early on to be sure it is hopefully OK and then go on with checking other things BEFORE throwing in a lot of parts in HOPES.

Yes and it just hit 117k miles so it was about that time

[5rebel9]

Quick hint: If the engine spins over rather fast when engaging the starter with little to no effort under say a 10 second crank time. That is a major clue to a broken timing belt.

[Ray Ray]

So husband checked timing belt and it was perfect. No damage. Still in tact. So now we have to figure out why car stopped suddenly on highway and why the battery won’t hold a charge after putting a brand new battery and alternator in a week or two ago. Also when we were trying to jump the car the alarm went off randomly. Car at first held a charge for a while but now only for a few seconds and then immediately dies. Can’t lock doors or turn on lights. Nothing. I know that my passenger side door latch is broken so sometimes when we think it’s closed it isn’t. And also I was having issues closing the glove compartment about a week ago and forced it closed. Maybe the light inside of it isn’t going off when we close it? I don’t know. 

[Ray Ray]

Or maybe fuel pump? 

[Ray Ray]

On 8/30/2021 at 6:38 PM, John/Horace said:

You need to line up crank pulley at top dead centre, notch on pulley lined up at mark on lower timing cover.

 

Both intake and exhaust cams will also have a timing mark on pulley and matching spot on head casting.

All three timing marks should be right on together. Out by one tooth or more and car won’t run, timing out of range.

 

Hopefully it’s not a belt issue. Lots of other stuff to check like fuel pump, if belt is still ok.

Timing belt is fine. How do I check fuel pump?

[OhareFred]

I think first you need to address the battery issue. Sounds like the battery is internally shorted. No matter what you do, if you don’t get a known good battery in there it will never run. Gone are the days of jumping a car with a totally dead battery and have the car run.

 

how about opening the glovebox, take everything out, then try closing it again.  You could try to peak up from the passenger footwell and see if you see any light….

[John/Horace]

1 hour ago, Ray Ray said:

Timing belt is fine. How do I check fuel pump?

That’s great news, sounds like you dodged a bullet.

 

Just to be clear, Its critical all three timing marks line up exactly. Belt sometimes looks ok without damage, but tensioner gets weak and belt jumps a few teeth. I use yellow paint marker and a mirror when checking timing marks.

 

Fuel pump test can be tricky, some cars have a schrader valve on fuel rail for a pressure gauge to snap on to. I haven’t seen one on Journey. So special in line mechanics test gauge would have to be hooked up to confirm correct pressure.
If pump is working  some what you will hear it cycle on with key for a few seconds, then stop when it is pressurized.  You will smell gas when cranking car and it will sputter and run a little bit with even a small amount of gas from weak fuel pump.

 
Once battery is recharged, scan for engine codes if it’s still not starting.

 

 

[5rebel9]

YES that is good news as member john/Horace posted already, and I will gladly "eat crow" from my first response!

   NOW as for what's actually gone wrong and figuring it out  ....

What was going on BEFORE your trip that gave the "before trip" work?

What are the engine oil, and coolant levels now?

Did you just get fuel before this happened(possible water in the gas)?

Did engine make bucking/clattering noises when this happened?

You stated interior electrical items still worked properly, so yes we are looking more to an engine OR electrical/ computer control problem. IF just a bad fuel pump, a shot of starting fluid into the intake air hose should fire the engine till it is used up. If no fire, then troubles are deeper in computer controls.

 In my book, these are the BASICS that need to be addressed.   GOOD LUCK and keep us posted!   

[5rebel9]

12 hours ago, Ray Ray said:

So husband checked timing belt and it was perfect. No damage. Still in tact. So now we have to figure out why car stopped suddenly on highway and why the battery won’t hold a charge after putting a brand new battery and alternator in a week or two ago. Also when we were trying to jump the car the alarm went off randomly. Car at first held a charge for a while but now only for a few seconds and then immediately dies. Can’t lock doors or turn on lights. Nothing. I know that my passenger side door latch is broken so sometimes when we think it’s closed it isn’t. And also I was having issues closing the glove compartment about a week ago and forced it closed. Maybe the light inside of it isn’t going off when we close it? I don’t know. 

As member Oharefred posted and you now report of interior stuff now NOT working. The basic battery system needs first attention, RECHECK cable connections hopefully terminals of the battery cables were cleaned when battery was replaced before. but now a terminal clamp my have worked loose. YES your posted door latch and glove box problem will cause a "not in use" drain on the battery. BUT you should be able to drive and have the alternator charge enough to travel as you posted originally. Your couple week old battery may now be too drained to accept and hold ant jump or quick charge. Also the antitheft system can "kick in" when such things as the door latch or battery connections are not good.

My it is sounding like there is more going on than what was originally posted.....