Misfire cyl 1 in open loop

[detroitgrip]

2009 Journey 2.4, 196,000 miles

Runs smooth in closed loop.  Long term FT about 9%, STFT between -3% and 5%.

In open loop the STFT goes to 0% and misfire in cylinder 1.  LTFT about 9%.  Low power, runs rough.

Then it switches back to closed loop and runs smooth again. 

(it's had evap small leak codes for about a year)

 When this problem first started It gave me crankshaft pos sensor codes.  I replaced the CPS.  Now it does not give CPS codes but gives cyl 1 misfire code.

Please help!  I love my Journey and want to fix it!!

Thank you so much.

[5rebel9]

How about a little more background maint history, like last time the spark plugs were replaced or coil (s) tested? Could also be a fauly fuel injector. Nothing hard to get to and do on a 2.4 motor.

[detroitgrip]

7 minutes ago, 5rebel9 said:

How about a little more background maint history, like last time the spark plugs were replaced or coil (s) tested? Could also be a fauly fuel injector. Nothing hard to get to and do on a 2.4 motor.

Replaced all 4 coils and plugs about a year ago.  Not OEM I think, just from Advance Auto.

I am going to replace the fuel injector on cyl 1 and see what happens.  I have to watch a youtube video first to learn how to replace.  But yes the coils and injectors are very easy to access on the 2.4.  I really love this engine.  (but it's the only one i've ever worked on)

I'll report back in a couple hours.

Thanks!

[2late4u]

swap the number 1 cly coil to the #4 coil plug to see if it is the coil or something else

[detroitgrip]

40 minutes ago, 2late4u said:

swap the number 1 cly coil to the #4 coil plug to see if it is the coil or something else

 

UPDATE:

I swapped the coils and misfire stays in cyl 1.

I did not buy a new injector yet but I cleaned the cyl 1 injector.  Took it off, hooked up to a battery to open valve, and sprayed brake cleaner through it (saw on youtube video).  That changed nothing.

 

Here is updated live data with my cheap scanner tool. 

 

In closed loop everything works great. No misfires.   STFT between -3% and 5%.  LTFT between 8% and 10% at idle and lowers with increased RPMs.   O2 sensor 1 bounces between .1 and .7.  O2 sensor 2 hovers around .05.  Nothing out of the ordinary with the few other sensors this scan tool reads.

 

In open loop cylinder 1 misfires.  STFT stays at 0.0% and doesn't move.  LTFT is between 0% and 3%.  O2 sensor 1 is between .01% and .03%.  O2 sensor 2 is also between .01% and .03%.

 

I'm thinking it has to be the O2 sensors.  What the hell do I know, pretty much no experience with this stuff except youtube videos.  But screw it I'm going to Autozone and getting 2 new ones.

 

Probably wasting money but I gotta see if it works.  I'll let you know.

 

Thanks 2late4u.  I appreciate someone with experience helping me out.  

[John/Horace]

I would do compression test on all cylinders before throwing parts at it. Put screw driver on suspect injector to see if you feel it clicking. Node light will even tell if it’s getting proper signal, not many people have one.

 

If not an oem crank sensor, thy aren’t that pricy, maybe try that if everything else checks out ok.

[John/Horace]

Intake manifold air leaks can also cause cylinder misfire codes. Fairly rare thing. Injectors also don’t fail very often in modern cars.

[detroitgrip]

On 8/7/2022 at 9:47 AM, John/Horace said:

Intake manifold air leaks can also cause cylinder misfire codes. Fairly rare thing. Injectors also don’t fail very often in modern cars.

Thanks John. I don't mind throwing a couple parts at it and seeing if it works. The next part I'm trying is the intake runner control valve. 

[detroitgrip]

Everywhere i read it says the car is in open loop when it's not warmed up. But according to my little scan tool my car is in closed loop when i first start it. Then it switches to open loop. 

[detroitgrip]

Just now, detroitgrip said:

Everywhere i read it says the car is in open loop when it's not warmed up. But according to my little scan tool my car is in closed loop when i first start it. Then it switches to open loop. 

I took off intake manifold, cleaned runners, cleaned throttle body, replaced intake and thr body gaskets. 

When i first start car (it's in closed loop) it runs great. Ltft at 10% and stft about 5%  

Then at ECT 170 degrees it switches to open loop. Ltft at 15% and stft pegged at 0%.  And it misfires cylinder 1. I can't find a similar situation anywhere online. 

[detroitgrip]

I fixed it !  

I took off the intake manifold.  Cleaned the runners (flaps) by spraying brake clean and a toothbrush.  Cleaned it while holding it upside down so everything dripped right out,.  Didn't let anything fall down into the manifold.  Cleaned the mating surfaces.  Cleaned the throttle body.  Replaced the intake gasket ($8) and throttle body gasket ($5).  Put it all back together and runs like a champ again.

 

Here is a link to a great video how to remove the intake manifold.  It is very doable, I am not a mechanic at all.  Learned everything from youtube in the last 4 years.  Didn't even know how to do an oil change before that.  You can do this!

 

The 2.4 is an awesome engine.  So easy to work on and learn how to do this stuff.  However I've never worked on any other engine so...

 

My goal is 250,000 miles.  Currently at 197,000.

 

Thanks for your help John/Horace and 2late4u !!!

 

 

 

[2late4u]

Glad you got it fixed and also for reporting back on the fix,we get a lot of people who  find their fix but never report back ,and yes his videos are great help as well,there is another youtube mechanic that helps out quite a bit but it is on the  FIAT FREEMONT/ journey  and he has a hard to understand accent at least for me, but the site name is .....

World Mechanics

World Mechanics