Won't start HELP!

[JenTiemann]

Car won't fire up. Negative 25° Temps, starter cylinoid wouldn't disengage. Tried a few times to see if it would break free, suddenly I smelled and saw a tiny bit of smoke in the cab. Just finished the starter replacement job. Battery reads 12.97 on the tester. Car turns over, sounds like it has plenty cranking amps (even put charger on & tried jump start option) but the engine won't fire up. Is there a sensor, fuse, something I'm not aware of that could be preventing it from starting? (It was still turning over with old starter but didn't sound very good. Sounds better with new starter. Just won't start.) 

[John/Horace]

Which engine, how many miles on it. Smoke is from something arcing out possibly.

 

Check all fuses to see if one is blown.  Fuel, spark, compression, timing , all come in to play.

Starter spray, sprayed into intake throttle body should make car fire a bit, eliminate a few variables.

If it’s a 3.5 engine, was timing belt ever replaced yet.?

Edited January 3, 2023 by John/Horace

[JenTiemann]

2010 dodge journey 4cyl. 2.5L. About 160,000 miles on it. I had replaced the serpentine belt about 60,000 miles ago. Sorry, I'm still learning all the mechanical in's & outs  on vehicles newer than the 70's. Would that be the timing belt? The cause of this issue & little poof of smoke was from me trying a couple times to see if the starter cylinoid would disengage after the engine started. It was -25° F, wind blowing. That's why it wouldn't disengage. I challenged it too much and burned something up. I assumed it was the starter so I replaced that. I started trying to put meter on fuses and was overwhelmed, hurting and gave up for today. Any ideas which fuses to check first? I'm a single mom, financially challenged and can't afford to hire someone to fix it for me. Would be simple if it were an older vehicle. Lol I appreciate your input! Also, it has not created smoke that I could see or smell since the initial over cranking while engine was running during the cold. It ran & started perfectly prior to this event 

Edited January 3, 2023 by JenTiemann

[John/Horace]

Usually when you try to start a fuel injection car, about 2 seconds after turning key you should hear the fuel pump at the rear tank come on and pressurize the fuel system, then shut off. If you have fan, radio, heated seats, all electrical turned off, you should hear the electrical fuel pump come on for a few seconds with car in accessory position.

 

If you don’t hear the pump there are a few things that can prevent it coming on. Try starting car in neutral is first suggestion, transmission park/neutral switch if flaky can disable the fuel pump. Usually a few hundred dollar repair.

If that doesn’t work I would guess at CPS sensor being bad (around a $30 part plus 20 mins install). Scanning for fault codes from the cars computer with an obd11 scanner is the normal staring point with car problems. But CPS doesn’t always trigger a code and the yellow check engine light, when it fails.  Is the che k engine light on the dash lite right now??

[JenTiemann]

So, I read in another thread about starting it in neutral. I attempted to put it in neutral to start today. Brake pressed, accessory on, it won't come out of park unless it's started.?.?. It is a bare bones model. Only power locks & windows. I'll go out tomorrow to listen for fuel pump. I think I may know someone with a scanner. The engine light was not on when I drove it last. I will check in the morning to see if it is on now while in accessory. Any tips on how to get it in neutral without the engine running? 

[John/Horace]

Put on parking brake so it doesn’t roll away. Don’t touch brake pedal, press start button twice to run position, you should then be able to shift range finder to neutral position.

 

Neutral start is usually tried when starter is not engaging at all. Yours is turning over so it probably won’t help much.

You probably have no fuel going to engine. Fuel pump not coming on, or spark plugs not getting power. If you have a second key fob, try using it inside car. Security system can sometimes disable fuel or spark causing no start. Usually the gauge cluster will give some kind of warning.

Scanning for codes instead of guessing and throwing parts it often the better option. But if I was parts throwing, a CPS crank position sensor , a $30 electrical part wear item would be at the top of the list. About 15 mins labor. Sometimes fails without storing fault codes in cars computer. Disables fuel and or spark to engine because no timing signal for engine to function.

 

A the temp you mentioned. I wonder about a frozen gas line preventing fuel flow. If you can’t get car inside a heated garage. Put a small bottle of isopropyl alcohol in the fuel tank, wait an hour and try starting it again. 

Edited January 3, 2023 by John/Horace

[JenTiemann]

Good morning. Thank you so much. It has the key fob tilt Start. No buttons to push. The Temps have warmed to the 30's the past week. I guess I was exhausted. Just woke up. Going to eat & head out to do your suggestions and try to get my hands on a scanner.

[JenTiemann]

Good morning. I ran a scan with no codes. I got the CPS and have searched & searched for the location of it on my 2010 journey 2.4L front wheel drive, bare bones model, with no results. You have been super helpful and I'm wondering if you can help me with the location? I found other years and engine sizes and they all seem to be in different random locations. Driver side, passenger side, go from the top, go from the bottom,  take this off, take that off, dissect everything..... none of which you would be able to just look in to see if it's there. I'm going bonkers. 

[JenTiemann]

See above comment.

My brain says it's got to be on the driver side (transmission side). Took off air cleaner assembly and I am seeing these 3 items with electrical going to them. I absolutely don't know which one is CPS or if I'm even in the correct area.

Edited January 6, 2023 by JenTiemann

[2late4u]

 

[JenTiemann]

That is it! Thank you! I swapped it out and the car is still not starting. It's like it's just not getting spark but I don't know how to check that on fuel injection engines. All relays and fuses checked out good. Battery is good. Starter is brand new. I am wondering if it is not throwing codes because the battery had been disconnected which clears the memory and of course the car won't start. I am at a loss. The starter was engaged for maybe 30 seconds with engine running and then I smelled & saw a tiny poof of smoke in the cab. It was dark out and I only saw it up in the light of the dome lighting. Shut the car off immediately.  Is there a way to check the ECM? (Computer, itself) the engine light is on with key in accessory position but, I think those lights are always on until the car starts?????

[John/Horace]

Crap, thought it might be the …issue. My daughters in laws 2.4 journey CPS died well before your 160k miles. It’s a common failure wear item.  It would have cut off spark to plugs. Tricky to trouble shoot.

 

Mechanics have a little spark testing tool. Easiest way to test spark without that is to remove one of the four spark plug coils, put a spark plug in the boot location (if you have no spare you can remove the one under the coil you removed)  plug the wire harness power plug back on coil. Then lay the metal thread part of spark plug on the cleanest metal surface you can find on engine or near by under hood. Have someone turn the ignition key while you watch closely the spark plug electrode gap for a small blue spark. Could use a heavy glove to hold  the plug coil so spark plug stays with decent contact with engine metal surface. Glove helps avoid shock, very low amps but it would give a decent shock. Easier to see the blue spark in the dark.

 

If there is no spark, we could be dealing with a TIPM module issue. (Power module which controls elect system in car, black box made of plastic with fuses inside ) But there are usually others things like signals going bythemselves, random horn honks etc also happening before random no starts. Module could be reseated and even by passed with a few jumper wires to prove it’s the issue. A bypass wire kit is sold fairly cheap. Some people buy a used wrecker module, they are pricy.

 

[JenTiemann]

Thank you John. I think I may have a friend coming out over the weekend. I will definitely confiscate this person as a key turner and check the plugs. Makes me wish I left the plastic pop on cover off. But no, i popped that sucker back on. I bashed myself up good today popping that stupid thing off. Still have a lump sticking off my forearm about 1/2" tall. The blood obviously stopped.  Haha, the joys of the "simple" things.