Power Steering Fluid Leak

[DodgeaWrench]

Last night the weather was just below freezing.  This morning I start up the DJ and its making a whirling noise.  As I pull out, I see a couple of wet spots.  On the drive to work, the noise gets worse, like an angry cat growling.  To cut to the chase, the power steering reservoir was empty, filled it, and the whirling/growling is gone.  While parked, it drips away.  I got a P/S leak.  During the drive time, I did not lose the power steering.

 

I didn’t have too much time to check it out in detail, and the weather is not going to cooperate for the next few days, but it looks like it is leaking somewhere near the p/s fluid cooler.  I’m reading this is a common problem, and a recall to some.  By VIN on an online lookup, mine is not covered by the recall.

I'm assuming that because I didn't loose the power assist, my issue isn't with the high pressure hoses.  Fair assumption?

 

Anyone have any experience with this issue?  Do the repairs themselves?  How do you even get to the p/s cooler?  YouTube is a bit thin on these videos.

 

From Mopar, best I can tell, the cooler and its hoses are sold together… $450-$500 (ouch).  Aftermarket universal p/s coolers are $50…  big difference.  What am I missing?  Normally I’d go OEM, but the car is closing in on 10 years old.  I’m considering going aftermarket on this one.

 

68304253AC  power steering with hose cooler

68322228AA  power steering return hose

 

 

Power Steering Fluid Leak

 

 

 

no drips up top - only a near empty bottle

 

 

 

[John/Horace]

Probably return line is bad as well, was recall ever done.? Looks like grill has to come off to get to cooler.
Don’t run it dry, buy a quart of fluid asap. ATF4 is ok to use as well.
 

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwielPeEytH9AhWCFTQIHay2AmYQFnoECCoQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fstatic.nhtsa.gov%2Fodi%2Frcl%2F2016%2FRCRIT-16V273-8350.pdf&usg=AOvVaw2m1VX_HnarQLUlyYSqpOfC

 

 

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwielPeEytH9AhWCFTQIHay2AmYQFnoECCsQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ncconsumer.org%2Fnews-articles%2Floss-of-power-steering-assist-leads-to-dodge-journey-recall.html&usg=AOvVaw0fJ5Srw_JdctQ_QBu9cN8o

Edited March 10, 2023 by John/Horace

[DodgeaWrench]

No luck with the recall lookup.  This car didn't qualify for the recall.

 

I popped the grill off yesterday and the p/s cooler "appears" to not be leaking.  The leaks seems to be coming from one of the return lines where it routes through the fender well just in front of the passenger tire.

BUT BUT BUT the car recently had the tires rotated, and the lug nuts were so tight, that I rounded out one of the lug nuts yesterday and was unable to get to the lines to check them out further.  I exhausted my attempts and dropped off the car this morning at the local tire service center to see if they get the lug off.  (Besides the possibility of them being over-torqued, I'll start a separate thread to re-discuss these terrible 2 piece lug nuts that should / will be replaced.)

 

More to come.

 

Todays weather report: A dusting to 1"-2" inches of snow expected this morning with highs just above freezing.

[John/Horace]

Winter weather can be  crappy for outdoor repairs. The chrome sleeve can be popped off and a different size socket can be used on the smaller size steel nut underneath.  Or you can file the sleeve so a socket can be put over sleeved nut. Switch to solid chrome nuts like McGuard etc. Factory lug nuts are crap, rust makes them swell up, softness makes them deform and not fit socket anymore. Over torquing torquing adds to problem as well.

 

Return line is not crazy pressure, could do double clamped higher pressure hose repair on rusted section until weather clears.

[John/Horace]

Tire shop will hammer on smaller socket to remove damaged nut probably.  They can be filed back to flat surfaces to get them off and for temp use. But have to be changed soon.

Lots of car companies use these crap sleeved nuts that become unusable with time. Salt belt areas especially.

 

 

 

 

 

[2late4u]

true story on my journey around 2 yrs ago i had just got back from discount tire after having the tires rotated and balanced and i thought well i wanted to clean the back side of the rims real good and went to loosen the lugs with my socket and 20 inch bar, and Dam the socket would not fit over 2 of the lugs, i thought WTF and went to check the other tire and 3 of them the socket would not fit and then checked the other side and on each rim there was 2-3 nuts as well deformed... so i called the tire shop which is around a 25 mile drive from my house and asked to talk to the manger and told him about the socket not fitting over the lugnuts and he starts telling me well its them 2 pcs lug nuts that are the problem and not his service center, and i said whoa wait  a minute before i came there i had no problem with the lug nuts  being deformed but after this visit i have at least 2-3 nut on each wheel deformed and unable to remove them myself and it was to much of a  coincidence that they all went bad after the last trip to his store, and he said since i was a loyal customer as well and if i would drive it back he would put on a new set of solid lug nuts at half price so  i ended up paying around $20 for a complete set which was cheaper than you can get them off amazon as well,,, i believe his mechanic  must have used an oversized socket ( 19.5 instead of a 19 mm) to loosen them or tightened them as well with the air gun...oh well it ended up being okay, just killed the rest of my day waiting to get everything taken care of,,,just glad i noticed the problem right away tho

Edited March 13, 2023 by 2late4u

[DodgeaWrench]

The tire service center was able to get the rounded lug off.  They needed to use the torch.  They replaced all 5 lugs on that wheel with one piece lugs and I'll need to address the others once the weather warms a bit.  The weather must have been right. While in line dropping off and picking up, other customers were dealing with lugs that wont come off.  Arguably, in hindsight, I didn't need to take the wheel off to address this cooler issue, but Im glad I experienced this 2 piece lug issue in my driveway and not with a flat, at night, out of town.

 

Thank goodness daylight savings changed Sunday.  I had a little more daylight on my side.  After picking up the car, it was already late afternoon Sunday and I still had to address the p/s leak.  I pulled out the plastic retaining pins to get the wheel well lower plastic covering off, and the large plastic guard under the front of the car off.  With guards and grill off and the car running, I put a little bit of p/s fluid in the reservoir and the watch it quickly drip out at the cooler (see picture).  The p/s cooler was the problem.  It was then the late Sunday evening dash to the local Irish Auto Parts store and picked up a universal p/s cooler by Hayden P/N 1012 for $39.  It very close in size to the original with the exception of no mounting brackets (see pictures).

 

I moved the hoses from the old to the new cooler, and installed the new cooler on top of the old.  There are foam rubber pieces between the two (supplied with the new cooler) and large plastic mount ties (similar to zip ties) that run through the middle of the two coolers to hold them together.  I did a quick test and all seemed dry.  The sun was down and I was done for the night.  I buttoned the guards and grill back on this evening and gave it a test drive.  Still dry.  I'll provide additional updates over the next few days of real driving.

 

The best i could tell, Dodge only sells the cooler as a large assembly with the hoses attached, $450-ish online.  The dealer was quoting over $1000 for parts and labor to replace ($650 for the part and 2-3hrs labor).  Third option was after market for $39 and hose clamps.

 

 

 

The leak at the p/s fluid cooler (from underneath looking up)                                                                                                       With the grill off, the leak, from the top looking down.

                                    

 

 

 

 

The Hayden cooler and an extra set of mounting rods.                                                                                                                  Side by side, the old and the new.

                                   

 

 

The new mounted on top of the old.

                     

            

 

 

The mounting rods through the new and old.

  

 

 

 

   

[John/Horace]

Looks good, glad you got your daily driver back on the road so quick.  Factory unit had permanent crimp clamp on hose connections. New unit looks like it came with 4 gear clamps in pic. I like to double clamp connections if possible, but return line pressure is not that high normally.

 

Harbour Freight/Princess Auto north of border have special stripped lug  nut sockets.  They are left hand threaded to lock on, seem to work pretty decent. Or hammer on crappy socket you don’t care about. Cutting torch sounds like way too much work, have never had to go that way, aluminum rims are fragile. 
 

 

 

 

[DodgeaWrench]

When dealing with the (lug) issue, I was able to get the an extractor on the nut, and it would bite real good, but the problem was I couldnt budge it.  I broke a socket wrench and a breaker bar trying to get it to turn.  I started to worry about breaking the stud.  They used the torch to heat it up and allow it to break free.

Looking back, I am always taking tires on and off during warm months.  This is the first time I recall doing it in the cold (temps around freezing).  Maybe between a high torque (or maybe even normal torgue) and the cold, I've always had this issue of lug nuts being near impossible to remove in cold weather, and never knew it.

Regardless, I agree the 2 piece lugs are crap and have ordered a set of the McGard's this week.  I definitely will wait for warmer weather before installing them, and will pay extra attention to how well the socket fits on the old lug before applying force.

 

[2late4u]

to be honest i had in the past always over torque the lug nuts since i didnt have a torque wrench, so finally broke down and bought one and always use it to do the lugs at 100 and have never had a problem since removing the nuts go to harbor freight or your local part store and pick one what,,,,, also NEVER use a ratchet and a cheater pipe,, i have always bought the 19 mm socket and a 24 inch breaker bar and that is more than you need to remove the lug nuts,,,so easy as well harbor freight for both of thoes as well   .... LOL ,,,,i do not work or sponsored  by harbor freight as well

[DodgeaWrench]

Random update on the power steering cooler.  All is working well, no leaks.

 

In cleaning out my notes, Plews & Edelmann make an aftermarket p/s cooler for the DJ - P/N: 58040.  Its approx $130 from Summit.

I would have gone with it as it appears to have the correct mounting brackets, but I needed one fast and it was not in stock.

 

Have a safe Summer.

 

[DodgeaWrench]

Argh!         Im experiencing what I believe is the start of another leak.  Its NOT the p/s cooler that was replaced earlier this year. 

 I'm noticing a few drops (of something that doesnt appear to be motor oil) on the driveway, equivalent to near under the front passenger seat-ish area.  P/S fluid?  Antifreeze?

Opening the hood , looking down, the engine compartment, looks dry, both sides, including the oil cooler.

 

I wont be able to slide under for a couple of weeks.  Fingers crossed that it remains only a small drip and the weather holds up until then.

 

More to come...

 

 

 

[2late4u]

antifreeze jugs are prone to crack,also could it be a drip from your ac drain hole?   Put some cardboard down with some rocks on it to keep it from blowing away and then you should be able to tell from the color which fluid it is.

Edited October 20, 2023 by 2late4u

[DodgeaWrench]

I had a chance to crawl under today, and its an ever so slight leak in the power steering high pressure hose.

(I did have to add fluid too.)

 

Again, its a 3.6.  You cant even see the p/s pump from above. 

 

The picture below is an odd angle, from underneath.  The dry hose is the low pressure and the wet hose is the high pressure.

Its leaking at the fitting.  Above the fitting is dry.

Getting to where this hose connects to the p/s pump is the challenge.  If I attempt this myself, I'll need to get a set of metric crow feet flare wrenches.

 

 

 

Below is where the low pressure hose return (left) and high pressure hose (right) route under the vehicle.

 

 

 

The only good thing throughout todays inspection was that this was the first time removing the front passenger tire after replacing the (crap) 2 piece lug nuts.  No slips, no slides, no hammering needed...  no issues.

 

[John/Horace]

There was a dealer recall on the leaking power steering lines.  Several years ago, search this site.  Mine 2014 model was changed in 2018 by the dealer no charge. Check if yours had the recall done yet.

[Locosiete]

Awhile ago I watched a video on how to replace the power steering pump and all i can say is wow. That engineer must have been pretty mad at the world when they designed that. 

 

Last year I had to replace a broken lug nut on my son's car. It broke just right where you couldn't get any socket to hold or fit. I ended up just getting a good drill bit and drilling out center of the lug. Leaving enough meat on it that I could just snap it off with some pliers and then I just replaced the lug and lug nut. This way it didn't damage the wheel. Luckily this was all done in my garage and not in the middle of who knows where due to a flat tire.

 

Which brings up a good point of not buying cheap lug nuts off ebay or Amazon. It's worth the extra $5-10 to not have to deal with this. 

[DodgeaWrench]

Still waiting for parts to arrive. I ordered both the high pressure and return hose.  I figure I'll do them both while I'm under there.  If the weather was decent, I was hoping to replace the hoses over the Thanksgiving weekend, but without the parts, that window appears to be closing.

 

As for the recall, I've only been able to find info that it applies to Canadian vehicles that have a block heater, and possibly only the return lines.  Regardless I did try a couple more lookup sites and did call the Chrysler customer service line, but no luck.  It did not apply to my vehicle.  Hey, it was worth a shot.

 

I watched those power steering pump replacement videos too.  Agreed, it looks like engineering revenge.  After my lugnut fiasco, I was walking the dogs and came across someone in their driveway wrenching to try and get the 2-piece nuts removed.  We shared a few 4 letter words and best I could offer was good luck and advise to throw them all out.

[5rebel9]

WELL.... It is what it is for some maint./repairs on our Journeys. You should see some of the numbskull engineering disasters for COMMON items that other makes have given their owners 

[Locosiete]

1 hour ago, DodgeaWrench said:

Still waiting for parts to arrive. I ordered both the high pressure and return hose.  I figure I'll do them both while I'm under there.  If the weather was decent, I was hoping to replace the hoses over the Thanksgiving weekend, but without the parts, that window appears to be closing.

 

As for the recall, I've only been able to find info that it applies to Canadian vehicles that have a block heater, and possibly only the return lines.  Regardless I did try a couple more lookup sites and did call the Chrysler customer service line, but no luck.  It did not apply to my vehicle.  Hey, it was worth a shot.

 

I watched those power steering pump replacement videos too.  Agreed, it looks like engineering revenge.  After my lugnut fiasco, I was walking the dogs and came across someone in their driveway wrenching to try and get the 2-piece nuts removed.  We shared a few 4 letter words and best I could offer was good luck and advise to throw them all out.

 

While working on my DJ this past weekend I think either the pump or a hose has a small leak. I thought it was engine oil but now I am not too sure. It's coming from that area so has me scratching my head. It's been like that for years and I don't really go through any fluid so that makes it that much more confusing. Guess I could give it a good blast with brake cleaner and watch to see if I can narrow it down. I REALLY don't want to have to replace those parts. That for me would be a job for... SOMEONE ELSE!! ? ? ? 

 

On what I can only call dumb luck, when I changed my wheels to aftermarket i also change out the 2 piece lugnuts. The 2 piece didn't feel like they fit right in the holes and the factory tire iron didn't fit at all. So I replaced them all with standard lugnuts I had laying around and I WAS planning on replacing them with a splined tuner nuts since the socket has a thinner wall compared to the 19mm deep impact socket I use. The impact socket just barley fits. Well that was about 7 years ago and I still use the standard lug nuts, since they are not visible under the cover on the wheel I don't know that I ever will swap them. Plus the standard lug nuts I feel are less likely to fail as long as they don't rust on the bolt compared to other style lugnuts.

Edited November 19, 2023 by Locosiete
typo

[Locosiete]

1 hour ago, 5rebel9 said:

WELL.... It is what it is for some maint./repairs on our Journeys. You should see some of the numbskull engineering disasters for COMMON items that other makes have given their owners 

 

Seen some engineering fails that make you just laugh. Can't recall what car it is but there is several videos out there showing this. There is a bolt that is very long for no reason, my guess it was one of those we already have them so might as well use it parts, but it's so long if you try to remove it it hits the frame, the only way to remove it is lower the engine or cut it and replace with slightly short bolt. Which is the easiest way. And of course it's one of those parts that will need to be replaced at some point like a water pump or alternator. 

 

 

Edited November 19, 2023 by Locosiete
add info

[5rebel9]

4 hours ago, Locosiete said:

 

Seen some engineering fails that make you just laugh. Can't recall what car it is but there is several videos out there showing this. There is a bolt that is very long for no reason, my guess it was one of those we already have them so might as well use it parts, but it's so long if you try to remove it it hits the frame, the only way to remove it is lower the engine or cut it and replace with slightly short bolt. Which is the easiest way. And of course it's one of those parts that will need to be replaced at some point like a water pump or alternator. 

 

 

For all that I've ben around, I could write a book on the "fails" I've seen over the years. BUT the best. ./worst one was the Pontiac transport/Lumina APV back around 1990. To replace SPARK PLUGS REMOVE Engine/trans/front sub frame as a UNIT.

I left the profession shortly after encountering one of them when I worked for a year at a local GM dealer. Moan as much as you want working on your Journey folks, I've seen and been thru a LOT WORSE.

[John/Horace]

The Ford Aerostar vans with the V6 engines were another night mare. There was a doghouse cover in the lower dash for accessing some engine components like distributor cap. Three spark plugs on driver side were barely changeable from under hood. Then two more through passenger wheel well with tire off. Last plug had to be changed from underneath the van with several extensions. Very nasty job, for any mechanic. But they at least used platinum plugs which lasted quite well.

 

Yeah , Journey is far from the worst car to work on for repairs.

 

[DodgeaWrench]

The power steering hose gods are sending me a gift (or setting me up for a cruel joke).  After about a month wait, the hoses arrived yesterday in the AM, AND the weather yesterday and today is unseasonably warm, in the 50f's, AND I had previously, randomly, scheduled the day off to use up unused vacation days.  I took the opportunity to replace the hoses.

 

*** TAKE NOTE ***  If you are planning to do this repair and you are a driveway mechanic (with just basic+ tool inventory), you will need a 18mm crowfoot flare tool.  Prior, to prep for this repair, I had purchased a metric crowfoot flare set at HF.  I now know it does NOT include 18mm.  I had not researched the size I would need, I figured I'd be good with a 'set'.  In hindsight you may be able to get by with a 18mm crowfoot flare wrench (but I dont own those either).

 

UGH! As I found out when I went to remove the old hoses , I didn't have the correct 18mm crowfoot flare tool, I used a dremel tool and file to grind out the 17mm in the HF set to 18mm.

 

Replacement is straight forward.  The same 2 bolts hold them both to the frame with a hose connection at each end.  The rub is the high pressure connection at the power steering pump.  While on your back in the driveway, its at a full arms length in, and once your arm is in, you cant see it.  After the usual set of 4 letter words, grunts, groans, and dropped tools, that connection was completed.  I hope its tight enough.  I'm no longer in my 20's.  My arm strength is no longer what it used to be.  Initial test drive was successful.  I'll check Saturday afternoon for leaks.

 

I refilled the P/S system with Valvoline power steering fluid and did not bleed it.

 

I'll provide an update.

 

 

 

 

High Pressure P/S Hose

 

Low Pressure P/S Hose

 

 

The 'easy' hose connections. 

Low pressure (silver) in on top.

High pressure (black) below it.

 

 

High Pressure P/S connection on the power steering pump (black).  This is the beast to reach.

 

 

Another view of the same, from the ground looking up.

 

 

[Locosiete]

Who would have ever thought what many would consider a common replacement part on what is a pretty common vehicle would be so hard to find. Or at least take so long to get. 

 

Good photos! From pictures looks pretty straightforward. I'm sure you said it before but do you have the V6 or 4 cylinder engine?

[John/Horace]

Nice pics and write up.  So clean underneath, definitely not a rust belt car.  The entire Harbour Freight  set probably cost less the a single snap on crow foot. Tool pays for itself on one job.
If you haven’t made your own tool to fix a car….your not a real back yard mechanic. Cheers.