Sudden no start

[Yogitech1]

2010 Dodge Journey SE 2.4 L. Alarm fob never worked except starting the car. Battery went dead again, charged the battery, now there's no charging from the alternator. I replaced the alternator then the signal from the PCM quit telling the alt. to charge. I wired in a new external regulator after disconnecting the battery. I also had the cables connected overnight to reset the system. When all was reconnected the alarm light was flashing and now the car won't start. It cleared once by pulling the PCM relay, the car started but after a few seconds the car shut down and the alarm was on again. Can't deactivate the alarm. HELP!!  

[John/Horace]

Wow, this sounds frustrating. I would start with having a fully charged battery in the car, low voltage can cause a lot of weird stuff to happen on these cars. 
 

It sounds like the original alternator may actually have been ok; unless the second alternator  ( was it new or remanufactured)  is also a dud. The oem unit is Nippodensa , one of the best manufacturers or electrical parts, imo. 

 

The bms systems in cars are pretty involved. They are tied into the battery ground current sensor on battery ground clamp and ecm. Lots of codes like low battery level etc can turn up in obd system. What codes are showing up right now?

 

The alarm system I think is bigger problem. Do you have a second fob or key to start car. Cycling drivers door lock with key I think twice should clear alarm on most dodge vehicles. 

[John/Horace]

Turn off the ignition and remove the key from the ignition switch. Lock all the doors using the key or remote key fob, and then close all the doors. Wait for about a minute before unlocking the driver's side door using the key or remote key fob. This should disarm the alarm system.

[Yogitech1]

Battery is fully charged, first alt tested bad on shop machine tester, replacement tested full swing at 20V so it works. I'll check for codes tomorrow and try the jey lock. How do I fix the alarm? Fob has known good battery previous was dead. 

[John/Horace]

There are posts on this site about alarm issues in 2009-10 yrs with the keyed ignition.  The fob locking the locks, arms the system.

So play around to clear alarm; then don’t arm it again with fob. Manually lock driver door lock for now, can open with fob shouldn’t affect anything. Losing battery voltage may have temporarily scrambled things. 
May need reprogramming .

 

TIPM module was big issue 2009-10; read up on it. Not sure if it’s tied into alarm system triggering.

[Yogitech1]

I have never used the key fob to set the alarm as it never worked. In fact the horn started blowing at random even while driving the car so I had to bypass the horn with a separate button. The alarm disarmed this morning and I was able to start the car but, still not charging I had to disconnect the battery again and work on the wiring for the regulator and now the alarm is back on not responding to unlocking the door with the key. 

[5rebel9]

Sounds like you have multiple different problems. Most prominent being a faulty fuse panel, and a common issue for your year vehicle. Not charging could also be fuse panel related OR wires from the small plug in connector on the alternator back to the PCM, but you have also stated that the circuit was bypassed with installing a separate voltage regulator. My bet on charging is some kind of feed wire to activate the alt. is not connected or broken somewhere. Disconnecting the battery for extended time WILL kick in the anti theft immobilizer.

[Yogitech1]

Yes but, how do I disable the anti theft when the key fob has never worked. 

[5rebel9]

6 hours ago, Yogitech1 said:

Yes but, how do I disable the anti theft when the key fob has never worked. 

As far as I have learned, there is NO way to disable the anti theft portion on your year or any other dodge products. That's why they call it anti theft.

[John/Horace]

I agree with 5rebel9 about bypassing alarm system. Almost impossible for most shops.

 

I believe a few years ago (couldn’t find it with search function) there was somebody in your situation with similar symptoms.

It was a car someone inherited from his sister,  2010 Journey with random horn honking and non start issues.

They ended up buying a used auto recycler  TIPM relay and swapping it removed the multiple weird problems with car.

 
This is the kind of problem a dealer is very capable of diagnosing. But a new TIPM module will probably make your wallet bleed. So would programming two new fobs for security system, another possibility.

Free advice is worth everything you pay for it. Cheers.

Edited January 21 by John/Horace

[John/Horace]

Dorman aftermarket $250:from RockAuto , who I don’t work for. Just general info for visual.

 

https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/dodge,2014,journey,3.6l+v6,3300354,electrical,power+supply+module+(tipm),13581
 

P

[5rebel9]

Also as you keep posting that the FOB alarm system does not seem to work, you are mistaking one system for the other.Alarm and ANTI THEFT are two different systems. 

Call me a "purist", but patching in an external voltage regulator rather than finding and fixing the designed system problem is not the way to go. There are a number of you tube videos that show how to check and trace back to the PCM of the 2 wire mini plug {alternator exciter circuit} and determine fault and correct it to make the system charge. 

     You have also posted of some other problems that are known symptoms of a bad fuse panel/TIPM out under the hood. Also power from that provides power for charge circuits to the PCM. These are things that must be checked and tested to find and FIX the overall problem.  As was just posted, Dealer level techs have the best capabilities in proper and accurate diagnostics of these kind pf troubles.

  

Good luck 

[Yogitech1]

I don't disagree with you. I'm a retired technician, although some newer system are a little confusing some information isn't easy to find. When you're on limited income you do what you can afford. No signal was being produced by the PCM to the alternator, so I did what I could afford. That's when the anti theft system started causing a problem. 

[Yogitech1]

I rely on my vehicle for income, no ho, no money. 

[5rebel9]

38 minutes ago, Yogitech1 said:

I don't disagree with you. I'm a retired technician, although some newer system are a little confusing some information isn't easy to find. When you're on limited income you do what you can afford. No signal was being produced by the PCM to the alternator, so I did what I could afford. That's when the anti theft system started causing a problem. 

 

Same background here, I have friends yet that have their own shops and spend some time with them to keep up on things as best as able. I've even helped them out on some "perplexing" problems they've had come in.

Yes info/ DISinfo can be hard to find and put to use. Time is one "luxury"{?} I have to be able to spend on the web looking up stuff.

The TIPM/fuse panel is not easily bypassed for wiring circuitry and when multiple glitches show up, it's almost always best to find a replacement unit., the printed circuit board inside them loves to go bad with breaks or lost solder connections.

[Yogitech1]

I hear ya. My contacts are disappearing unfortunately. I've since retired and got a bachelor's in electronic communications engineering but, the school (ITT) failed to help me find a job amongst their business miss practices. I've had the TIPM apart and with real strong magnification couldn't find anything wrong with it physically, so put it back in the car. I found a TIPM on eBay cheap. 

Is the alarm module built into the TIPM? 

[John/Horace]

If you don’t mind Xmas tree like lights on the dash, the alt should be able to be forced to charge car.

Small plug on back,  exciter wire is positive,  needs a fused positive feed from battery.  Small negative also probably needs its own direct ground.  Use power that cycles with key switch; and an inline fuse to protect new alt. Alt I think would just put out full charge at all times. This time of year not a big deal, imo. Volt regulator is internal to alt.

 

Unplugging battery current sensor on negative battery terminal might reduce dash warning lights. Sensor has a small plug that sends ecm signal feed back. This sensor failing could even be your charging problem. Code scan might show that. Pricy part even aftermarket, good car wrecker purchase.

 

Alarm theft system not likely shutting off engine. A low battery warning on cluster will shut down car to protect from overheating engine (cooling fans have to be functional).  I’m hoping it’s current sensor on battery neg terminal that gives that signal.

Edited January 21 by John/Horace

[Yogitech1]

Not internal to this alternator, I tried that and got 20V out of it. An internal regulated alt. wouldn't have a field wire. 

[5rebel9]

Without looking up the part{neg. post battery sensor}, I'm not so sure the '10 models use it.

Another thing to keep in mind is it is not always a component that fails, a lot of times it's a wire or connection that fails{corrodes or breaks inside the insulation.

 

The charging system circuitry is basically the same thru all years and models of Dodge vehicles using the 2.4 

And even more importantly is good clean and TIGHT connections at the battery and TIPM {positive} and strut tower {neg}. 

I WISH I was computer literate enough to post links as I know of a few good you tube videos about "not charging on the 2.4 motors. 

AND quite honestly I'm getting confused with just what the main issue of this thread is getting to be. IF not charging when able to start....that is the FIRST fix that needs to be done, don't try and bypass secondary issues of anti theft which does not involve the cars alarm system{that;s a separate function.

[5rebel9]

53 minutes ago, Yogitech1 said:

Not internal to this alternator, I tried that and got 20V out of it. An internal regulated alt. wouldn't have a field wire. 

I agree, the regulator is in the PCM and power flows to PCM from TIPM/fuse panel.

Have you removed the plastic connectors of PCM and checked for damaged pin connectors  from the 2 wire alternator plug?

[Yogitech1]

Yes, it's been working. I had the alternator replaced when I had ext warranty but, went bad under warranty, when I hooked it back up I had no charge. The alternator did test bad at the auto parts store as I wanted to rule out the TIPM or PCM. After all no signal from the PCM, hince the external voltage regulator until I can fix it right. Then the stupid anti theft kicked in and is being a pain in the @$$. Hos do I reset the anti theft system? 

Edited January 21 by Yogitech1
Additional information.

[5rebel9]

14 hours ago, Yogitech1 said:

Yes, it's been working. I had the alternator replaced when I had ext warranty but, went bad under warranty, when I hooked it back up I had no charge. The alternator did test bad at the auto parts store as I wanted to rule out the TIPM or PCM. After all no signal from the PCM, hince the external voltage regulator until I can fix it right. Then the stupid anti theft kicked in and is being a pain in the @$$. Hos do I reset the anti theft system? 

I think I'm now understanding better now But stated before , do you have a second key to try on the car?

Is the battery known good and good connections to it?

IF so unhook the neg cable at the strut tower for 10 - 15 minutes then reconnect

open drivers door and put key in the run position{do NOT CRANK}

Open drivers window turn key off and remove  {window open is for safety factor that you can get back inside if this does not work}

open door and get out lock doors with the door master switch

Wait a few minutes then use the KEY in the door lock and unlock the door

 Get in and try to start.

 

This MAY OR MAY NOT WORK, as I still think there are other fuse panel issues at play, GOOD LUCK

 

Edited January 22 by 5rebel9

[Yogitech1]

Ok, so I replaced my TIPM in my 2010 Journey SE. The TIPM won't hard reset but the door locks won't operate if of the door switches, does this mean the replacement is bad? Also what part receives the signal from the key fob? Is the WIN unit part of the alarm system. 

[John/Horace]

Fuse Configuration
Various Makes and Models
• Due to some configurations and dealer installed options, please verify the fuse configuration of the replacement TIPM matches the configuration of the TIPM you are removing.
Aftermarket Electronics
• To prevent damage to the TIPM or factory wiring harness, all aftermarket electronics accessories such as Audio equipment, lighting, plows, winches, etc., must not be directly wired into the TIPM. When installing aftermarket accessories, a proper size fuse and relay must be used.
For vehicles equipped with Push Button Start
• For the first start after installing the TIPM, the key must be used to put the ignition switch in the run position. If the push-button start is used, the vehicle configuration may not load correctly, an error may display on the instrument cluster, or the vehicle may not start. The push-button must be removed from the ignition switch and the key inserted.
TIPM Configuration
• The Cabin Control Node, Powertrain Control Module, and Instrument Cluster must be connected to the vehicle and functioning correctly before a replacement TIPM can be installed.
• After installing the replacement TIPM, the module will try to pull build configuration and VIN from the above-mentioned modules.
• Insert the Ignition Key (see above for push-button start vehicles), turn it to the run position (do not attempt to start the vehicle), and
wait 120 seconds.
• After waiting for 120 seconds, turn the key to the off position and back to run.
• Clear any stored Diagnostic Trouble Codes before starting the vehicle.
• Start the vehicle and ensure all electrical features are working properly.
• If the vehicle does not start or some electrical features are not working properly, use a factory approved scan tool to verify proper
build configuration and VIN are stored on the TIPM. If they are incorrect, they must be properly configured using a scan tool before attempting to start the vehicle.
 

[Yogitech1]

On 1/20/2024 at 12:51 PM, 5rebel9 said:

Sounds like you have multiple different problems. Most prominent being a faulty fuse panel, and a common issue for your year vehicle. Not charging could also be fuse panel related OR wires from the small plug in connector on the alternator back to the PCM, but you have also stated that the circuit was bypassed with installing a separate voltage regulator. My bet on charging is some kind of feed wire to activate the alt. is not connected or broken somewhere. Disconnecting the battery for extended time WILL kick in the anti theft immobilizer. After replacing the TIPM and today put the wiring back the way it's supposed to be, reconnected the battery and the anti theft finally disengaged but, now I have a no start. I replaced the ignition relays just to be sure but no go. Does this indicate a reprogram by an external programmer?