Persistently blowing power steering hose

[Andy Sawyer]

im going to try the synthetic approch 1st and if it brusts again i'll look into custom hoses. now i just got to wait for the dang hose to come....both dealers ive called say 3-5business days. My previous vechile was a 2000 Dodge Stratus SE 2.4L 4cyl, i had that car for 4 years and now my girlfriend has it and never had this issue.

[Lobitz68]

glad I found this topic, I just purchased a 2010 Journey 2 weeks ago with 28000 miles on the clock. I checked my PSF and its looking very brown. I drive across Europe a lot where it is sometimes -20 celcius so you guys have probably saved me an expensive repair job.

I have purchased the Valvoline ATF+4 Fully Synthetic (2 litres, not sure how much I need the owners manual doesnt say and the Chrysler dealers computer systems down, seems lots of Chrysler stuff doesnt work properly)

http://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-85491-valvoline-synpower-atf-4-full-synthetic-automatic-transmission-fluid.aspx

Cheapest I can find for anyone else in the UK with a Journey

-20 C is not that cold... I doubt it will be an issue. The issues in Canada are happening at MUCH colder temps.

[kamhillbilly]

I plan on getting accustom hose made after warranty they can keep replacing it until its over going in next week for third hose not blown yet but leaking bad not bad this one lasted a year.

[bigtsr]

Have you started using fully synthetic power steering fluid?

Some owners that have similar winter temps state this resolved the blown hose problem.

[kamhillbilly]

Dealer can pay for it when they change hose , if manufacturer cannot figure out problem with inferior products they can keep replacing till 2019 when warranty runs out . Car only runs about 5500km a year and I am going on the third hose obviously design flaw .

[longhorn]

Hello All,

I have not been on this site for a while. I traded in my 2010 dodge journey sxt for a toyota venza awd. the feature i was looking for among others was the electric power steering. it has been great and no worries about pumps or leakage. I have had some experience with this issue as you may have seen in my previous posts. I did in fact replace the ps fluid with a synthetic fluid from kal tire. it stated that it is compatible with chrysler fuid. since i was out of warranty it was worth a try since my last repair bill was 800.00 to replace and diagnose a blown return line for the third time in three years. the dealer stated that it never happens but my brother in law has a 2010 r/t and he blows his every year as well.

its a known problem with this vehicle. one dealer that i knew the service manager well, told me that he has many poeple commin in for the problem and he sends out the hose to a hydrolic hose place and they rebuild the hose with high pressure fittings and lines and then no problems. the root of the problem is that in low temps the fluid ( ATF+4) gels and gets thick, as a result it either blows the clamps off or splits the line. Chrysler knows about, however they choose not to do anything about it.

there is a guy on here trolling the site claiming to be a chrysler rep. under the name of Chrysler cares that knows all about it. he mentions how chrylser is trying a new synthetic blend for the problem and is very " SORRY" that this is happening. it's been happening for 7 years.. and chrysler will not recall or create a fix for this problem. for a simple reason. once out of warranty the average repair bill is around 700 to 800. that is labor and parts. the part itself is around 400. that is a good reason to lie to the customer and tell them that they really dont see many of these failures. no surprise that there are low on stock for the return lines.

as far as the dealer fix is concerned, the dealer must replace with a stock return line. and refill with ATF+4. the problem is that this is the very line that fails at low temps and the ATF+4 is the very fluid that gels. so repeating a repair that is known to result in failure of the line is crazy. however that is what the dealers must do, replace with chrysler approved parts and fluid. they are not interested in resolving but want the warranty work or, out of warranty work.

replace with a ful synthetic fluid or have the return line retrofitted for high pressure. this will solve the problem, neither will the dealer or chrysler tell you how to resolve this issue.

there will be some on this site that will tell you that you must stick to chrysler approved lines and fluids, that is correct for warranty purposes, however, for those out of warranty, this is a cheap method to solve the problem. considering the amount of the repair, doing the retrofit and fluid change is a lot cheaper.

good luck to all.

[09JBKBOERST]

Thank you. I am a single mom with one car for two boys and myself. Is their a recall on the power steering hose for an '09? I tried to get into my regular mechanic but he is booked. Don't know if I should call my dealership in my area due to the cost. If there is a recall, TG! I can barely afford to drive a car let alone get it repaired. I have had the differential go out at 21,000 and it was still under warranty. I changed to all synthetic oil, all the sudden there was no oil in the car. Took it in to the dealership, had to bring it back every 500 miles; they could not find anywhere where it was burning oil. The story I got was this is typical for this vehicle to burn oil after 80K miles. Ok. Then I got my taxes back and decided that it would be smart for me to take out the lifetime warranty to protect myself, being I am still making payments. Would this be covered? I am a chic and really rely on honesty with my dealer.

[bramfrank]

One of the issues with synthetic oil is that if you change over after a full break-in it can get past rings and seals . . . . have you tried going back to dino oil with a subsequent change to see if your oil consumption is moderated? I do know that FCA has some interesting views of what constitutes acceptable use. But if you go back to conventional oil you may find it uses less oil.

As to whether there's a recall for the power steering or not - there was one for the 2010 Journey, but I don't see any recalls listed for this issue for the 2009, so you need to contact the dealer (phone them) and ask if them to run the VIN for outstanding recalls.

This was clearly a design defect - Dodge claims it was because the power steering fluid they used would thicken up (the term I recall them using was 'gelled up') in cold temperatures resulting is very high pressure in the return hose for the power steering that would blot it out.

The repair simply puts the same hose back in so the next time it gets really cold you can get a recurrence - and you are out of warranty if the recall has been done they'll make you pay for the repair anyway.

I don't understand why anyone who has had this happen more than once, or in years not covered by the recall hasn't been on the NHTSA site filing safety and environmental complaints. It is REALLY easy to force them to do the investigation - all that needs be done it to describe the problem the owner has experienced, why it happened and state clearly why it is a safety hazard.

If there are enough reports on the web and if you choose, you can sometimes file in small claims court to recover the cost of the repair in some jurisdictions - where I live there is no time limit on design and other latent defects, so if the manufacturer won't step up, they can be forced into paying if you can make your case.

So you might want to have a PLEASANT chat with your dealer to see if he can't somehow convince FCA to step up and cover the cost of the repair, assuming there's no recall (which there does not appear to be). If properly phrased (i.e. without malice), a simple statement that if they decline to cover the cost that you would get it repaired and then try to recover the cost in small claims and that given the number of failures and the 2010 recall (assuming that nothing changed in the power steering design between the 2009 and 2010) it wouldn't be hard to get a judge to see things your way . . . . . .

[DodgeCares]

You can check for any open recalls on your vehicle by punching in your VIN here: http://recalls.mopar.com/

Whether the repair is covered by your lifetime warranty would depend on the diagnosis, but it wouldn't hurt to ask around about it to a couple different dealerships. You can reach out to me if you would like any assistance scheduling an appointment.

[Elmwoodie]

I have heard from someone who should know that Chrysler will be implement a "customer satisfaction" fix for this "shortly".

Free hose and install!

I think that means that you have to ask for it.

I have notified my dealer service already to hold me a part if he hears of this. Just suffered my 3rd hose failure on my 2010 R/T. I got a cheap hose repair rather than the "recommended cold weather" $350 CDN part. The night before it failed the low was -20 Celsius. The week before it was much colder though, so damage likely accumulated.

Thanks to whoever recommended filing a Transport Canada safety issue. THAT was a good idea and worth my time.

If anyone gets "customer satisfied" on this issue, be sure and let us all know!

Elmwoodie.

Edited February 10, 2016 by Elmwoodie

[Zook250]

I have been talking to transport canada for the last 2 months. Customer satisfaction campaign is coming,but they need to manufacture enough parts before they notify customers. Our journeys been off the road since the first week of january. Pretty bad for a 2012 vehicle.

[yyz]

Seems to be getting some attention now

http://www.therecord.com/news-story/6505847-steering-defect-found-in-several-fca-vehicles/

[Zook250]

transport Canada will be making their final decision on the recall shortly. they are basing it on feedback from customers that have had this problem. we have to send in our feedback by APRIL29th. send your feedback to:

mvs-sa@tc.gc.ca

it can also be found on this web page : http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/motorvehiclesafety/safevehicles-defectinvestigations-1449.html

note the date on the bottom.

[stephen]

The recall is now active

From Transport Canada

http://wwwapps.tc.gc.ca/Saf-Sec-Sur/7/VRDB-BDRV/search-recherche/detail.aspx?mk=24277!28000!5115!4864!3714!2444!1849!6400&md=JOURNEY&fy=2009&ty=2016&ft=&ls=0&sy=0&rn=2016202&cf=SearchResult&pg=0〈=eng

Chrysler's web site

https://www.moparownerconnect.com/oc/ca/fr-ca/sub/Pages/RecallsQuery.aspx

[kamhillbilly]

Had mine booked for recall they called and cancelled they said there is a hold on recall replacement parts . So a recall on the recall so far they have changed a hose on my 2012 every winter.

[ChrisPollard]

We bought our 2012 Journey CVP in October 2011 ... we have had ONE calendar year without a power steering hose replacement.  ONE.  It's been in twice this year - although the second visit was due to them not fully tightening the hose on the first visit.  Or so I'm told.  

 

Seems to me if they KNOW that the fluid they designed the system for - and still use/recommend upon every single repair - cannot be reliably used, they should recall them all for a fluid flush and replacement.  It was annoying AF when it was under warranty, but it's bloody ridiculous now that I'm paying for these things out of pocket. In all my 40-some years on the planet, I have NEVER owned or even KNOWN OF a vehicle that consistently blows up its power steering system on an annual basis.  In fact, I've never known a vehicle to suffer blown PS lines at all until this one!  Even 20 and 30 year old vehicles I've had NEVER blew a PS hose!  Then again, every one of them use power steering fluid, and not transmission fluid.  Maybe that should have been a sign from the get-go.

 

We really like the Journey, and it's been relatively problem-free outside of the power steering lines.  Heck, we even managed over 140,000km out of the factory brakes!  (Sure, they probably should have been changed a good 10k earlier ... but they still weren't making any noise.)  Not really looking to get into another car payment right away ... but we're debating it just to get out from under the steady flow of power steering repairs.  I wonder if FCA would pay to replace the chunk of pavement in my driveway that's soaked in transmission fluid from all the leakage?

[data1701]

We have a 2012 Crew, and it went a couple years before the problem emerged during an extremely cold winter spell (persistent daytime temps of -30 plus wind chill, and overnight temps of -40 and colder. plus windchill) in Winnipeg. Then, we blew hoses four times in the space of six weeks. Not fun. Then we were good for a couple years, until Transport Canada forced Chrysler to issue the recall in 2016. We had the recall performed as quickly as possible, and that got us through one and a half winters, until the problem recurred late this winter, albeit less catastrophically. We've had a leak for a few months now, which I've been nursing by adding ATF+4 fluid.

 

Took it to the dealership for some bodywork and I had them take a look while it was there. They told me at that time that it was the high pressure line leaking this time, not the return, and that even if it was the return line which was replaced as part of the recall, they wouldn't warranty the work since more than a year had passed. This pissed me off so I drove away. A couple months later (and an oil slick in my driveway) and I finally took the time to jack it up and inspect myself. I can unequivocally say that it is again the return line, leaking from somewhere within the rubber portion, which is covered with a hose loom so I can't see exactly where.

 

I was initially thinking I would take it off myself and take it to a hydraulic shop to have the hose remade properly, but upon a closer look at the location of that hose, I couldn't confidently remove and replace it myself. So, I called Transport Canada, and low and behold, there is another investigation underway, this time for failures on the recall work. I logged my problem, and got a reference number and a request to report back with any developments.

 

I took it back to the dealership and asked for the service manager, I wound up talking to the shop foreman, and at his request made an appointment. He indicated that if the work they did was faulty, that they would 'do something'. The appointment isn't for a couple days, but I will report back afterwards. Until then, if you have this issue, call Transport Canada at 1-800-333-0510 to let them know, as it will help with the investigation.

 

For the record, I absolutely cannot believe this is still an issue. It is completely ridiculous and could easily be solved by adding a bypass into the system loop to bypass the cooler in cold weather (when pressures reach a certain point), by using better quality fluid, and by using properly constructed hoses.

[rossco]

WHy not replace the return hose with a copper pipe? Whatever the diameter is there should be something that can be made up. We replace steel pipes with copper in the U.K. A lot because the weathers sh**e and the authorities pour salt all over the road when it snows which rots everything fast. 

[ChrisPollard]

There is a reason the hoses are flexible in the first place.  If you put in a solid pipe, I think you'd discover failure far faster than in the cold conditions they keep blowing up in.

 

Only two payments left on my Journey now ... it'd be great if it manages to not blow another line before that happens.  LOL  Luckily it doesn't seem to mind +30 and higher nearly as much as -30 and lower.

[jkeaton]

2 hours ago, rossco said:

WHy not replace the return hose with a copper pipe? Whatever the diameter is there should be something that can be made up. We replace steel pipes with copper in the U.K. A lot because the weathers sh**e and the authorities pour salt all over the road when it snows which rots everything fast. 

 

You can't use solid pipe in place of a flexible coolant hose. The engine moves. The radiator does not. 

Edited August 14, 2018 by jkeaton

[rossco]

9 hours ago, jkeaton said:

 

You can't use solid pipe in place of a flexible coolant hose. The engine moves. The radiator does not. 

lol I'm talking about the ps hoses that people are complaining about not coolant hoses. Most ps systems use a mixture of hoses and pipes. Lots of people here are complaining about ps hp and return hoses bursting. A lot of those can likely be replaced with piping. Only the hp pump to the rack or the end of the return line need to be hoses to take up any movement. For example most of the ps pipework on a Mondeo is pipes rather than hoses. 

Rossco

[jkeaton]

11 hours ago, rossco said:

lol I'm talking about the ps hoses that people are complaining about not coolant hoses. Most ps systems use a mixture of hoses and pipes. Lots of people here are complaining about ps hp and return hoses bursting. A lot of those can likely be replaced with piping. Only the hp pump to the rack or the end of the return line need to be hoses to take up any movement. For example most of the ps pipework on a Mondeo is pipes rather than hoses. 

Rossco

 

Yes. I read that completely wrong. 

[agm2112]

I´ll try to recycle this topic, because a have another case of "explosive" power steering.  Here in Brazil, with ridiculous hot weather (40+ Celsius), My Journey had a rupture on the oil seal where the steering column is connected to the steering rack (Journey 3.6R/T 2014 - 100k miles). Almost all the oil leaked inside the car and made a complete mess (this oil is specially stinky).  I bought  a steering rack overhaul kit and changed all at home. I´m using a Texaco multi-vehicle synthetic oil that claims to be ATF+4 compatible (only on steering, on transmission I use Valvoline ATF+4).

 

After some mileage (1000km) it happened again when entering on a garage at a hellish hot day. This oil seal is in the return line, and should hold low pressure, so why is it blowing ? Now I did a backflush with querosene and compressed air, and replaced the oil seal. The car seems fine again, but now I´m always waiting for another oil mess when parking. The return line does´t seem to be clogged.   What else I can do ?? 

[5rebel9]

2 hours ago, agm2112 said:

I´ll try to recycle this topic, because a have another case of "explosive" power steering.  Here in Brazil, with ridiculous hot weather (40+ Celsius), My Journey had a rupture on the oil seal where the steering column is connected to the steering rack (Journey 3.6R/T 2014 - 100k miles). Almost all the oil leaked inside the car and made a complete mess (this oil is specially stinky).  I bought  a steering rack overhaul kit and changed all at home. I´m using a Texaco multi-vehicle synthetic oil that claims to be ATF+4 compatible (only on steering, on transmission I use Valvoline ATF+4).

 

After some mileage (1000km) it happened again when entering on a garage at a hellish hot day. This oil seal is in the return line, and should hold low pressure, so why is it blowing ? Now I did a backflush with querosene and compressed air, and replaced the oil seal. The car seems fine again, but now I´m always waiting for another oil mess when parking. The return line does´t seem to be clogged.   What else I can do ?? 

as a long time {but now retired} auto tech, I can only thinks of 2 possibilities.

1   A defective rack and pinion

2 A power steering pump

 

Hard to determine either, but I'd suspect the power steering pump first.

GOOD LUCK fellow DJ owner, keep us updated.

[John/Horace]

Hydraulic pump will have a relief valve built in. Prevents blowing hoses when steering is held at extreme end position on right or left. Makes me wonder if it’s working.