Random Start

[Dick Tatina]

Dodge Journey 2.4l: After car sits for 10-12 hours it starts without cranking. Let it sit for 20 minutes and the starter will crank for 3-7 seconds before starting.  Took car to Dodge dealer.  Their analysis - No codes, fuel pressure regulator and fuel pump OK.  They replaced the plugs, cleaned throttle body and injectors.  "Car started each time when they used their gas.  They recommended to use up fuel in the tank and replace with Amoco, Shell or BP.  I ran two tankfuls of Amoco. Problem still exists.  

Called Dodge Engineering and got a Case No. and returned my Journey to the dealer.  The suggestion was to replace the fuel pump, but no guarantee that that was the cause.

Anyone have this problem?  Any solutions?

[John/Horace]

Sounds frustrating, haven't heard of someone experiencing this before. How many miles on vehicle? Hard when no codes come up, if you can wait for part to actually fail you can avoid expensive guesses. 

 

It's a hot soak issue, occurs when engine is still warm to hot. Which is how fuel pumps fail sometimes (happened to a ford van I had years ago). Internal pump clearances increase when it's hot/warm and pump produces less pressure. Loosening gas cap or remove it when slow start happens ; then try starting would eliminate slim possibility of intermittent vapor lock being cause. Evap and cannister issues would most likely set a code if this was the case.

 

Most vehicles if there is low fuel pressure would probably set a diagnostic code. Measuring actual fuel pressure when engine stone cold and then heated up might give some useful information. Need an analogue dial fuel guage with an adapter that attaches to fuel line, a dealer should have this. Surprised they haven't done it.

 

If I was doing an educated guess I would start with a cheaper one, like the CPS.  OEM part is only around $35,  installs in 15mins, on the 2.4 they usually start to act up by 100k miles anyway. Crank position sensor if it's getting flaky could cause extended starts, but once again usually a code.

My next guess would be the expensive fuel pump in gas tank, if it was showing around 5-10 pounds of pressure drop. Good luck, free advice worth everything you pay for it.

Edited December 28, 2024 by John/Horace

[Dick Tatina]

Thank you John/Horace for your response.  The mileage is 48,000.  Since the dealer was introducing "his gas" at he fuel rail and stating the problem went away, I mentioned that the problem would probably be from that point back to the tank.  The dealer then suggested replacing the fuel pump ($1700.00), What if it checked ok?  Received a message from FCA that they have closed the case.  The car has one year remaining on the extended warrantee, which covers the fuel pump. So the dealer is afraid to replace a good fuel pump that will not fall under the warrantee.  I didn't mention that if i drive the car and the engine has reached temp, then shut it off for about 5 minutes, no problem.  I'm going to purchase a fuel pressure gauge and follow your procedure.  I'll let you know the outcome.  Happy New Year.

[5rebel9]

I agree with member john/Horace, but with a couple additional "observations" of the OP'a info given.

A 6 year old car with that low of mileage? what is the typical driving use{short run city driving at lower speeds}?

 IF SO I would suspect "dirty injector{s}" or carbon build up / fuel soak on the intake valves where fuel is sprayed. Try running a can of Seafoam in the fuel tank on you next fill up. As was stated they cleaned the TB and plugs; that year should have the much longer lasting platinum plugs as original equipment, so I question the need to have replaced them.

And YES the crank sensor is a known WEAK LINK with the 2.4 motor AND will cause problems WITHOUT throwing a CEL or CODE until near a "full failure" condition,like crank no start or "stalling out" while running.

Aggravating for you, YES good luck and keep us informed on how things "work out" for you!

[John/Horace]

There are so many things that can cause extended cranking on a warm (not hot start) start. They need at the 20 min slow start point to figure out if it fuel or spark related (compression and timing obviously ok). You have played along and paid for possible unnecessary services ( like 5rebel is saying, platinum plugs good for 100k) ...helping them out. Its only matter of time before it turns to a full no start condition.

 

If free towing is included in warranty period it can be a useful tool for pressuring dealerships at the expiring point of warranties.  Used it on wife's Hyundai about 10 yrs ago. They were resetting an intermittent sticky electronic throttle body ETB like your 2.4 engine has by unhooking battery for 5 mins.  Car then started ok for few weeks but warranty was in last month's. A very long distance expensive flat bed  tow ( free to me) motivated them to replace the  $1,000 etb.  

 

In tank electric fuel pumps on most cars rarely fail now. They did first 5 yrs they came out. I would even put your ETB as a higher probability than the fuel pump. By 100k most people with a 2.4 engine have changed it, especially if a city mile car. Yeah happy new year.

Edited December 31, 2024 by John/Horace

[jkeaton]

Moved to the correct section.  

[Dick Tatina]

What should the fuel pressure reading be for the 2018 Dodge Journey 2.4/?

[John/Horace]

From the Google.....most conventional fuel systems with a regulator, run at around 3 bar or 43.5 psi base pressure, while most returnless systems run at around 4 bar or 58 psi.

 

Not sure if journey is return set up, number of lines from rear sending unit will tell you that.

When car is running , the actual guage number is probably what it needs to normally be, so that's your bench mark. It's the potential drop you measure when the delayed slow start is occuring, that will be interesting. Regulator is there so there should always be a negligible difference. My understanding anyway.

 

E85 fuel is one thing that can probably mess up a regular gasoline run fuel pump set up. Cause premature failure. They have special material used for all O ring seals on the vehicle. Maybe viton or something similar. Running a vehicle out of gas often can also shorten fuel pump life. Since gasoline is what lubricates and cools the in tank pump.

 

I wonder if dealer can monitor what pressure regulator is doing when car is running, Using their special two way scanners. Question for licensed tec currently working in the trade...which I am not.

 

 

[Dean H]

2016 Dodge Journey 2.4 fuel pressure spec is:

 

58 psi  + or - 5 psi.