Decisions Decisions, but almost there

[JetSmooth]

Greetings! My name's Joel and I'm knee-deep in car shopping. The Journeys are tops on my list but there are a few things nagging at my mind.

I've always driven smaller hatchbacks. My high school car was an '89 Hyundai Excel. The first car I bought myself was a VW New Beetle (2 point slow). I am currently in an '05 Scion xA. But we have a kiddo now and he's starting to kick the xA's driver and passenger seats from his car seat in the center position. We also took a road trip recently in my wife's '09 Toyota Corolla S and it was a bit cramped. We want something bigger where we can put everything in the trunk and not have to pack it into the foot spaces in the passenger cabin. It's for safety and also to keep things more comfy.

Here are some of my questions

Cargo/Seating:

I previously had my heart set on a Jeep Patriot, until we did the old "stroller test" and the darned rear hatch wouldn't even close. We had to tilt the stroller to get it to close and wouldn't have had even a quarter of the space in my wife's Corolla trunk. Now, I know that's not an issue for the Journey with the ample back end space. What I'm wondering about is if I NEED the flexible seating package.

My question is, if you DON'T get the flexible seating option, what's the vehicle like? I'm assuming you have a big, flat space where the third row would have been. But the flexible seating option mentions the fold flat second row. If you get a five-seater, does the second row not fold flat? Sort of seems a little like you'd sacrifice that ability to fold all seats but the driver's down for hauling stuff. Or do you just miss out on the 60/40 split and Tilt and slide? That wouldn't be so bad since you don't need to get back to seats that don't exist.

Power:

I'm not a speed junkie. My xA has like 108hp and I do just fine. I'm considering going with the SE and adding all the packages (except the flexible seating, if I don't need it) to get the alloy wheels, security system and spruce it up a bit. I read a lot about how the base engine is sluggish and detracts from the experience. But does it REALLY if you're not a car guy and want something for basic transportation? At 173hp, versus the Corolla's 132, it's got to move a bit nicer, even in a larger vehicle, right? It's definitely got to be spritlier than my xA's 108hp. Our car trip involved some large inclines through the mountains of West Virginia. The Corolla did decently. It didn't poke up the hills like my xA would have or a minivan.

My normal driving routine is get up at 4:00am, out the door by 4:15 (or 5:15 on a "late day") and take a decently straight country road (a few lights here and there as we cross main roads) for about a 30 minute drive to the commuter train station. At the end of the day, I take the highway back for a few exits and it's back in suburban traffic for another 20 minutes. So it's not like I'm going to be driving an insane amount in this thing. We mainly want a bigger vehicle for family outings, trips t the grandparents, etc. Her Corolla needs a break My wife drives an hour into Baltimore for her commute in the Corolla, so upgrading her doesn't make sense.

So, I guess I'm asking does this sound like a good fit? I'll probably get to test drive one tomorrow, but am looking for opinions from those who have them and not a sales person.

I also see a lot of mentions of problems, but those seem to be in the '09 and '10's. I'm looking at a 2012. Surely they've tightened things up a bit since then.

[Geer]

Welcome.

I have an '11 R/T AWD, bought it brand new in May (factory ordered it actually).

I went with a 5-seater and love it. A couple reasons:

1. I would use the third row 1% of the time, therefore

2. no point getting the third row option - the extra seats come at the cost of cargo space, add alot of dead weight (200-300 lbs for seats, rear hvac etc) and its a tight squeeze in the 3rd row.

3. this sort of thing always results in a compromise to something else

To answer your question - in a five seater the second row folts flat (both sides of the split back) and furthermore the split backs also recline, and both left/right seats are slide-adjustable front to rear about 8" Very convenient!

If your stowing a stroller etc - you would likely regret a third seat vehicle.

With a five seater you get a large removable folding hard cargo floor standard, it folds up or comes out entirely to reveal an additional 8 or so inches of cargo well area beneath. I took my cargo floor out and use the cargo well to store groceries etc - they can't roll out the well. I also have the roll-up vinyl cargo cover on top - another nice feature.

Power - to each his own, but don't forget the Journey tips the scales at over 4000 lbs, especially when you add the third row its over 4300. That's why the 2.4 is a stone in this vehicle. The 3.6 pentastar on the other hand is stellar! It outguns every other suv in this class, and then some. I like putting juice to the wheels, and I have always come out on top when challenged, even by expensive luxury imports. The 3.6 does not run out of jam, the power keeps coming as it rows through the gears (and the 6-speed does a fine job of that as well.

Anyway, I think power is important especially on the highway - I wouldn't cheap out with the 2.4 but again thats just a personal preference. The 3.6 seems to be bullet-proof - its a brand new state of the art engine - they really did their homework on it IMO.

Edited December 16, 2011 by Geer

[bigtsr]

I have the 3rd row seating option and it does fold flat,

my second row also folds flat to give you a very large cargo area.

I have my grandaughters car seat on the 1/3 portion of the 2nd

row so I can still fold the other portion down for cargo use

while leaving the seat in place.

The rear cargo space is 42"x40" with the 2nd row up.

Yes get the Pentastar it makes a world of difference.

[JetSmooth]

Yeah. I'm leaning toward the SXT without the third row. I don't see the need for it since there's only three of us and we don't see any other kids on the horizon. The third row wouldn't be useful for any of our family because they're all rather tall. Though, if the dealer can't find me a base SXT in the color I want and only has he third row option and has to throw it in for free. . . so be it.

The Pentastar is REALLY tempting. I'm trying to be as fuel efficient as I can and even the 2.4-l represents an estimated overall fuel increase over my xA of like 27%. And the V6 is 30% But, I guess that's the price of the size of vehicle. I'm starting to think that power is necessary to be able to pass on the highway or go up steep hills. I just have to convince my wife that we can't do any better in a crossover with a V6.

I'm working from home today and might just have to take lunch to go test drive before my wife gets home.

[bramfrank]

I have the 2.4 and it is plenty peppy though it does tend to spin more quickly than the 6 would and it won't push you back into you seat when accelerating to 90 on the highway.

But in Canada the SE Plus is a much better value proposition than the American SE because it comes with the LED tail lights, floor mats, roof rack, tinted glass, 17 inch alminum wheels, cargo cover, body colour mirrors and leather steering wheel and can be had for less than $20K.

No matter what you choose, remember to order Bluetooth if you want it. The manual says it is standard, but it is not.

[bramfrank]

I saw a banner ad the other day that said that 3rd row seating is currently 'free'. But be aware that you lose the rollup cargo cover and undrfloor storage.

[JetSmooth]

I wonder if that third row free thing is only in Canada. I'll be sure to ask about that. If I can knock $995 off the "internet" price of one I see on my dealer's site, that would be good. I think uConnect can be added aftermarket as well. So I won't hold my breath for an SXT with UConnect but no third row. Most of what I see seems to have them both or neither.

Can you order an aftermarket cargo cover to use if the third row of seats is down? Like, are the connectors and hooks all still in the car?

I can see us putting the seats down 80% of the time, and want the cover.

My main concern now is the color. I don't see blue one's anywhere near me, according to the Dodge locator. Well, the closest that's configured the way I want is 600 miles away.

[bramfrank]

Note: Uconnect is the radio, not the BT feature. And at this point in time you cannot add it to the current model Journeys - nothing prevents you from using a Navigator with BT or a unit that plugs into the Aux input, but it is a lot less convenient.

You cannot use the rollerblind cargo cover on a 7 seater because there are no mounting points in the body panels.

Look at a blue one in person before commiting . . . I thought it would look good, but changed my mind when I got a good look in bright sunlight. I wanted red, but settled for Black - and it is a very nice metallic black.

As to the deal . . . it was an ad that showed up on the MSN home page and I can't know where it applies, since I have dual internet connections, one homed in the US and the other in Canada.

But we've managed to hijack this thread. To the OP: Sorry

[ChrisPollard]

Be warned - there are lots of what I have dubbed "Penta-snobs" who will decry the very existence of the 2.4 and raise their nose in the air with disgust at the mention of it. LOL But I have no problems with it in mine. No, it's not going to "throw you back in your seat", but if that was a concern for you, you wouldn't even be asking about it. The 4 banger gets over the road just fine. If you're thinking for 4 for fuel economy purposes, I wouldn't. There is very little real world difference between the 4cyl/4spd and the 6cyl/6spd combos. Maybe 1 or 2mpg. I'm very happy with the 2.4's performance. I find it's sweet spot to be around 75-80mph on the interstates. Yes, you have to put your foot into it to do any fast passing, but it's perfectly capable.

As for the 3rd row? Odds are you'll probably never use them. I'm 6' tall, and I crawled back there once just for giggles. You won't put anything more than young kids back there unless you have no choice in the matter. If it's a matter of you MUST jam 7 in your vehicle, they won't like it, but there are seatbacks, seat belts, and it's legal. Just don't plan a cross-country tour like that. The ONLY reason I have 3rd row seats instead of an SE Plus 5 seater (which price-wise was within 100 dollars of what I bought) is the rear seat heating and cooling controls. And if you will be putting a child back there, I do HIGHLY suggest getting the 3rd row if ONLY for that addition. It makes a world of difference to their comfort and yours. The interior cools faster in summer, and warms faster in winter. And if you aim the air vents right, it can help (not prevent, but help) with condensation/fogging on the back windows. I've only ever had those seats out of the floor to prove their existence and test my fit back there.

In my ideal world, I'd have a 5 seater with the rear heating/cooling controls. Wish it was an option. Maybe by the time I'm ready for another one in 7 years or so ... lol

[JetSmooth]

Well, I had to do a few important errands (tape to wrap a present), sooooooooooo, I stopped by and test drove both an AVP and SXT. I can definitely feel the difference in the engines, but could be very happy with the 4cyl, I think.

Though I told him I would look at the SXT for the additional trim options. I want alloy wheels (NA on the AVP and $1000 extra option package on the SE). So, if you get a SXT with UConnect and nothing else, versus the SE with uConnect and the Popular Package, that's like getting the V6 for only like a $1500 jump. Seems like the thing to do.

UConnect Voice Command for Bluetooth connectivity (that's what I meant before, not just the radio) is still a must because I figured it'd be a hassle to get it put in as an post-delivery option, plus the dash would have to be pulled.

As for the blue, I haven't yet seen one in person, but I'm 99% it's exactly what I want. Looks like the TARDIS from Doctor Who. I've already told him to try to find the trades from local dealers around and if we can make a deal tomorrow, we should have it Monday. (if he can find one)

[generaltso]

As for the blue, I haven't yet seen one in person, but I'm 99% it's exactly what I want. Looks like the TARDIS from Doctor Who. I've already told him to try to find the trades from local dealers around and if we can make a deal tomorrow, we should have it Monday. (if he can find one)

I saw one of the new blue ones at the dealer today while I was picking mine up. It's definitely a bright blue. I kinda like it, but I went with Storm Gray instead.

[JetSmooth]

Well, we just got back from the dealer. My wife drove the 4cyl but liked how it felt. I told her the V6 was peppier, but she didn't need to feel it. Showed her some of the features and put the stroller in for the official stroller test. MASSIVE amounts of space.

What I also liked was putting the car seat on the 60 split and having a whole , adult-sized seat to sit in next to it. I was really uncomfortable in the Patriot. So that was another plus.

My dealer managed to find a blue SXT with UConnect and the Flexible Seating. My wife decided the rear climate control was worth having. I agree. The car is in PA and they will have to see if they can get it, since it was late (about 9:00pm) when we got out of there. We're real party animals. We shut the place down.

Generaltso, there are apparently two blue colors. 2011 had a Blackberry Blue and 2012 has Blue Pearl. Either one looks good to me.

We walked away with a bunch of numbers. My wife is a finance person, so she's going to probably drive herself crazy tonight running scenarios. But I think we have a decent price overall. I didn't tell them about the $576 in purchase credit or the coupon I have for 25% off the extended warranty. I'll bring those up with the business manager when we go to sign. :spiteful:

So, I may not get my DJ this weekend. But hopefully mid-week.

Now, to figure out what the plates will say. Haha.

[generaltso]

Generaltso, there are apparently two blue colors. 2011 had a Blackberry Blue and 2012 has Blue Pearl. Either one looks good to me.

Yeah, the blackberry from 2011 is much darker than the new blue for 2012. The 2012 blue is much brighter.

[generaltso]

No matter what you choose, remember to order Bluetooth if you want it. The manual says it is standard, but it is not.

I think that's only an issue in Canada. All of the 2011 and 2012 Journeys I've seen in the US have had Bluetooth and voice recognition if they were one of the trim levels that were supposed to come with it. There is no separate $300 option for it in the US.

[ChrisPollard]

Well, whether you go with the 4 or the 6cyl - I'm pretty sure you'll be VERY happy with the Journey!! Hope they don't keep you waiting too long!

[JetSmooth]

Yeah, the blackberry from 2011 is much darker than the new blue for 2012. The 2012 blue is much brighter.

Yeah, but even the swatch and photo in the 2012 brochure and the online Build Your Own system looks darker than some of the stock example photos I'm seeing on dealer online sites.

I've seen what I think was the surf blue, which looks more like what you'd see on a Jeep Wrangler.

I can't say there's a blue I don't like, as long as it's not baby or sky blue.

[bramfrank]

I think that's only an issue in Canada. All of the 2011 and 2012 Journeys I've seen in the US have had Bluetooth and voice recognition if they were one of the trim levels that were supposed to come with it. There is no separate $300 option for it in the US.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but BT is only standard on the Crew & RT. It is a $395 option for the rest of the models in the US.

[generaltso]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but BT is only standard on the Crew & RT. It is a $395 option for the rest of the models in the US.

Right. I thought the issue in Canada was that even the higher trim levels weren't coming with BT even though it was supposed to be standard, no?

[Teambedlam]

Ive ordered a Canadian 2012 crew and the BT voice command was a $300 option and wasn't standard.

Right. I thought the issue in Canada was that even the higher trim levels weren't coming with BT even though it was supposed to be standard, no?

[generaltso]

Ive ordered a Canadian 2012 crew and the BT voice command was a $300 option and wasn't standard.

Yeah, that's what I thought. It really is standard on the Crew and R/T in the US, but it needs to be added as an option in Canada even though the documentation says that it's supposed to be standard.

[JetSmooth]

Well, we settled on the costs and everything. But the dealership with the car I want (65 miles away) wasn't trading today. They trade manager is out. So, they called to ensure the car was still available and on their inventory. It is. So as long as they don't sell it out from under us tonight, the dealerships will haggle on Monday and we should take deliver on Tuesday.

In all, this has been a decent sales experience. I feel we've been treated very fairly and I'm excited about the SXT. There were a bunch of other blue Dodges and such in the parking lot and my wife keeps asking, "Is the blue more like this or that?" I'm pretty confident I'm going to love the color, but she's not really hot on any blue cars. But I wasn't hot on her choice of the red Corolla, so now we're even. Haha.

[caperinmuskoka]

My 2012 R/T was 300 extra also....................caper...

[Geer]

Well, we settled on the costs and everything. But the dealership with the car I want (65 miles away) wasn't trading today. They trade manager is out. So, they called to ensure the car was still available and on their inventory. It is. So as long as they don't sell it out from under us tonight, the dealerships will haggle on Monday and we should take deliver on Tuesday.

In all, this has been a decent sales experience. I feel we've been treated very fairly and I'm excited about the SXT. There were a bunch of other blue Dodges and such in the parking lot and my wife keeps asking, "Is the blue more like this or that?" I'm pretty confident I'm going to love the color, but she's not really hot on any blue cars. But I wasn't hot on her choice of the red Corolla, so now we're even. Haha.

Hey, that's great - congrats! I'm not 100% familiar with the US line-up but you must be getting the 3.6 in the SXT - you won't be disappointed...after all 110 extra horses is a big performance gain with virtually no difference in fuel economy. Also it will improve your resale value down the road. And don't worry - I won't call you a "pentasnob" !!!

Edited December 18, 2011 by Geer

[bramfrank]

You know, I've seen Dodge's claim that there is just a 1 mpg penalty for the 3.6 engine over the 2.4, but I wonder how that translates in the real world.

Obviously if you drive two identically equipped (but for the engine and transmission) Journeys and accelerate identically the power demand curve will be almost identical (the 3.6 equipped likely weighs a bit more, which accounts for the difference in fuel economy). But, if you take advantage of that performance gain you mention it means that you WILL be sucking extra go-juice from the tank - it's simply a matter of physics.

So, in real life situations, normal driving, according to the EVIC I get 11.8l/100km (about 20 mpg) out of my 2.4 equipped ride.

What do *you* get? (noting, of course that it depends on your driving style, local terrain, how much 'stuff' you drag around and how much idling you do).

Edited December 18, 2011 by bramfrank

[bigtsr]

My worst EVIC reading so far with all city stop and go at 4500km mark has been 11.2 .

While my city and hiway(very short runs) the EVIC shows between 10.2 - 10.7 /100 km.

Pentastar and tires at 255 kpa.