AstralRT Posted September 21, 2012 Report Share Posted September 21, 2012 Got a quote from Costco today for winters. 17" oem rims $48, way cheaper than anywhere else I've been. Bridgestone Blizzak WS70 215/65R17 $172+6(enviro fee)-17.50 ($70 discount/set of 4) installed so basically less than $1000 taxes in installed and balanced. Yes it is for 215/65R17, the shop person said that they were within spec and narrower is better for the winter. Probably will go with costco but might get the 225's instead. Have until Oct 8 to get them as $70 off set ends then. Thanks for the price, might have to give them a look. I always thought wider tires are better in the winter, or any time for that matter. More rubber = more grip. At least thats what I've always thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CCCacher Posted September 21, 2012 Report Share Posted September 21, 2012 I always thought wider tires are better in the winter, or any time for that matter. More rubber = more grip. At least thats what I've always thought. Narrow tires are better for the winter as the cut throught the snow easier and while the contact patch is smaller you get more pounds per square inch on that patch so better traction. (yes, even though I am Canadian, kg per square cm doesn't sound right) http://www.motortrend.com/womt/112_9903_tire_myths_and_reality/viewall.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AstralRT Posted September 21, 2012 Report Share Posted September 21, 2012 Narrow tires are better for the winter as the cut throught the snow easier and while the contact patch is smaller you get more pounds per square inch on that patch so better traction. (yes, even though I am Canadian, kg per square cm doesn't sound right) http://www.motortren...ty/viewall.html Interesting, never thought of comparing tires to a knife cutting through snow. I'll throw this out there though. In hard packed snow, the snow that is solid and the plough blade even slides over it. I think in those situations a wider tire would be better. I think the narrow comparison is more for fresh/deep/soft snow, not the hard packed/icy stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CCCacher Posted September 21, 2012 Report Share Posted September 21, 2012 (edited) Interesting, never thought of comparing tires to a knife cutting through snow. I'll throw this out there though. In hard packed snow, the snow that is solid and the plough blade even slides over it. I think in those situations a wider tire would be better. I think the narrow comparison is more for fresh/deep/soft snow, not the hard packed/icy stuff. If the tire gets too wide then there is less weight on each square inch of road contact and that means less grip. I'm sure with the small differences between the size of tires that we are limited to it doesn't really make much difference. I can just remember having my 81 Camaro with 245's on 15" rims (wide tires for 20 years ago) and they were great for cornering in the summer but absolutely sucked in the winter. Edited November 2, 2012 by CCCacher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AstralRT Posted September 22, 2012 Report Share Posted September 22, 2012 If the tire gets too wide then there is less weight on each square inch of road contact and that means less grip. Good point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AstralRT Posted September 24, 2012 Report Share Posted September 24, 2012 So just had some 17 inch steels tested at Canadian Tire. They tried every 17 and 18 inch steal wheel that is "suppose" to fit according to their system. Every single steal rim would rub on the outside of the caliper. It would clear with regards to diameter but the depth of the rim was the problem. I was told by the installer that a guy he works with had the same problem with his Journey but (he thinks) resolved the problem by contacting the dealership and getting a hub ring to bring the rim out further. Has anyone else had any luck getting 17s to fit around their big calipers ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Posted September 24, 2012 Report Share Posted September 24, 2012 Well the shop just tried the 4th set of steel rims for my R/T and no go. I called the dealer and he checked with Chrysler and there are no steel wheels that are available for the R/T. The wheels clear the rotor but not the caliper. So I would be careful ordering online. I had rims, tires and sensors in a deal for under $1000 which I guess now is out the window. I will let you know when we find out what kind of rims will actually fit!!!!! Might even get it done before the snow flies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AstralRT Posted September 25, 2012 Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 Well the shop just tried the 4th set of steel rims for my R/T and no go. I called the dealer and he checked with Chrysler and there are no steel wheels that are available for the R/T. The wheels clear the rotor but not the caliper. So I would be careful ordering online. I had rims, tires and sensors in a deal for under $1000 which I guess now is out the window. I will let you know when we find out what kind of rims will actually fit!!!!! Might even get it done before the snow flies. I double checked tirerack.com and they include the hub centering ring with their wheels, wondering if these rings will allow for better depth clearance of the calipers. Its not the cheapest option, but options are starting to become limited. I'm planing on giving them a call to confirm before ordering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CCCacher Posted September 25, 2012 Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 Now I'm a little concerned about ordering tires and rims a month or two before I intend to start using them. Maybe someone can confirm that it is the front calipers that are the problem or is it front and back? I'll have to check with Costco to see what their policy is on this. Hopefully they would take the time to dry fit the rims before mounting the tires. I'll follow up with Costco and let you know what I find out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigtsr Posted September 25, 2012 Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 I may have missed it but has anyone checked these so called replacement rims for the proper OFFSET spec for the 2012 DJ with larger brake specs?? Rim size and bolt pattern being 2 specs but OFFSET is important also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CCCacher Posted September 25, 2012 Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 (edited) I think part of the problem here is that the larger brakes were added part way through the model year so I'm assuming that the lists that tire shops get might have info taken from the start of the model year. Being just a regular guy I'm relying on the tire shop to have the knowledge to fit my vehicle with proper rims. I understand all of the priciples involved in tire/rim size and offset but I don't have all of the factory specs on what will fit around the updated brakes. There has to be something out there considering the number of journeys that come factory with 17's on them and we can't be the only people wanting to put winters on. I'm not sure if DodgeCACares has any info on what we should be looking for. I asked the dealer for a quote on winters last week when getting my oil changed and they didn't seem at all phased about putting 17's on and quoted me $1050+tax installed for Firestone Winterforce. Didn't ask me anything about my brakes or say that I couldn't downsize from the 19's. He also said that most people don't worry about the TPS's as they were about $100 each. I'd much rather pay $950 taxes in at Costco though, I'll deal with the TPS warning for a few months. Edited September 25, 2012 by CCCacher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CCCacher Posted September 25, 2012 Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 Has anyone looked at getting 18's for the winter? Tire prices on-line seem more reasonable than 6 years ago when I was last looking for winters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AstralRT Posted September 25, 2012 Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 Has anyone looked at getting 18's for the winter? Tire prices on-line seem more reasonable than 6 years ago when I was last looking for winters. When I had mine in for rims they tried 17s and 18s. The offset for the 17s were 40mm and in their system it specifically stated it was for the 2012 Journey that has 19 inch factory wheels, no mention of the calipers in the listing though. Doing some research last night I'm thinking winter alloys might be a better option because the spokes being flush to the outside of the rim, until the steels that attach to the rim wall further in and causing our clearance issues for the calipers. Either that or get wheel spacers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CCCacher Posted September 25, 2012 Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 So where is it rubbing? Is it that the caliper is not fitting within the rim or is the hub of the rim rubbing on the side of the caliper? I'll assume the second option if we are talking about spacers and offset. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Posted September 25, 2012 Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 Every one of the rims that the shop tried had the "proper" offset according to the suppliers to fit but where up to 1/4 inch shy of fitting. Its looking like winter alloy wheels for me. Going to 17 was not the trouble as they cleared the rotors but not the calipers. I worry about using spacers as that would make less stud available and is another piece that could cause a problem with balance etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AstralRT Posted September 25, 2012 Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 (edited) Every one of the rims that the shop tried had the "proper" offset according to the suppliers to fit but where up to 1/4 inch shy of fitting. Its looking like winter alloy wheels for me. Going to 17 was not the trouble as they cleared the rotors but not the calipers. I worry about using spacers as that would make less stud available and is another piece that could cause a problem with balance etc. I'm leaning the same way, now just need to find some cheap alloys. Spacers do not reduce the available stub as they have their own studs. So where is it rubbing? Is it that the caliper is not fitting within the rim or is the hub of the rim rubbing on the side of the caliper? I'll assume the second option if we are talking about spacers and offset. Yes, fitting the caliper within the rim is the easy part. The problem is the caliper is thicker than the smaller calipers and the rim is not deep enough to fit around it. Edited September 25, 2012 by AstralRT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CCCacher Posted September 27, 2012 Report Share Posted September 27, 2012 UPDATE: So, with all the talk that the 17 steels don't fit I went to the guys at a local tire place and they test fitted the recommended rim and said that there was no problem. Part #X44753, same part # that I got from Costo. So that has me wondering what problem other people are having, what rim part # have people tried or do I have different calipers (they look pretty big, build date was 5-12)? The tire store quoted me $62/rim (X44753) and Goodyear Ultragrip Winter (225/65R17) for $178 installed. So that is $960+ $24 enviro fee + tax - $40 mail in rebate (after tax of course) so say ~$1100 Costco quoted me $48/rim (X44753)and Bridgestone Blizzak WS70 (215/65R17) for $172 installed. So that is $880 +$24 + tax -$70 rebate (not sure if it is a mail in or immediate) so that is ~ $950. Got a few other quotes but they must have been smoke'n something good. (CT $90/rim, I don't think so) and some other other place that I e-mailed that quoted some 'fresh off the boat' no-name brand for the same price as I got for brand names at the above stores). So it looks like the winner will be Blizzaks from Costco. I'll likely go with 225's though to keep to the recommended tire size so that will likely add a few $. The trick now it timing. The rebate ends Oct 7th so I need to order them before then. They said a week or so to get the tires and rims in and then I have 7 days after they call to pick them up. That likely means before the end of Oct. I'll have to ask if installation is included at a later date. I don't usually have my winters on before mid Nov or Dec. I may just do it myself (but I'll have to get a decent floor jack with enough lift for the vehicle). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moparviens Posted September 28, 2012 Report Share Posted September 28, 2012 Man, that's great news! Mine is a 3-12 build date and i was gonna start calling around tomorrow, so having the part number and everything is great. I would just end up taking them off when i got home if they installed them for me, but of course i have a nice 3 ton jack sitting in my garage :D. I also have a Costco right near my work, which will be easy to go to for lunch while they put them on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CCCacher Posted September 28, 2012 Report Share Posted September 28, 2012 So it looks like the winner will be Blizzaks from Costco. I'll likely go with 225's though to keep to the recommended tire size so that will likely add a few $. The trick now it timing. The rebate ends Oct 7th so I need to order them before then. They said a week or so to get the tires and rims in and then I have 7 days after they call to pick them up. That likely means before the end of Oct. I'll have to ask if installation is included at a later date. I don't usually have my winters on before mid Nov or Dec. I may just do it myself (but I'll have to get a decent floor jack with enough lift for the vehicle). Checked at Costco last night. Yes you can buy the tires, take them home and then bring them back and have them installed for free. Good news, looks like that seals the deal. I'll order them next time I am there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AstralRT Posted September 28, 2012 Report Share Posted September 28, 2012 UPDATE: So, with all the talk that the 17 steels don't fit I went to the guys at a local tire place and they test fitted the recommended rim and said that there was no problem. Part #X44753, same part # that I got from Costo. So that has me wondering what problem other people are having, what rim part # have people tried or do I have different calipers (they look pretty big, build date was 5-12)? The tire store quoted me $62/rim (X44753) and Goodyear Ultragrip Winter (225/65R17) for $178 installed. So that is $960+ $24 enviro fee + tax - $40 mail in rebate (after tax of course) so say ~$1100 Costco quoted me $48/rim (X44753)and Bridgestone Blizzak WS70 (215/65R17) for $172 installed. So that is $880 +$24 + tax -$70 rebate (not sure if it is a mail in or immediate) so that is ~ $950. Got a few other quotes but they must have been smoke'n something good. (CT $90/rim, I don't think so) and some other other place that I e-mailed that quoted some 'fresh off the boat' no-name brand for the same price as I got for brand names at the above stores). So it looks like the winner will be Blizzaks from Costco. I'll likely go with 225's though to keep to the recommended tire size so that will likely add a few $. The trick now it timing. The rebate ends Oct 7th so I need to order them before then. They said a week or so to get the tires and rims in and then I have 7 days after they call to pick them up. That likely means before the end of Oct. I'll have to ask if installation is included at a later date. I don't usually have my winters on before mid Nov or Dec. I may just do it myself (but I'll have to get a decent floor jack with enough lift for the vehicle). Thats great news. I'm not sure the part # for the rim at CT, but my end price was 1099 everything included. Unfortunately though they didn't fit. I'm not overally worried about catching the rebate date as long as I can get decent tires/rims that fit properly. Please update when you have the rims installed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CCCacher Posted September 28, 2012 Report Share Posted September 28, 2012 Thats great news. I'm not sure the part # for the rim at CT, but my end price was 1099 everything included. Unfortunately though they didn't fit. I'm not overally worried about catching the rebate date as long as I can get decent tires/rims that fit properly. Please update when you have the rims installed. It will be a while before I actually have the tires on the vehicle. Nov or Dec depending on the weather. I will order them next week though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AstralRT Posted September 28, 2012 Report Share Posted September 28, 2012 It will be a while before I actually have the tires on the vehicle. Nov or Dec depending on the weather. I will order them next week though. Will you be doing a test fit right after purchasing just to make sure? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CCCacher Posted September 28, 2012 Report Share Posted September 28, 2012 Will you be doing a test fit right after purchasing just to make sure? That would probably be a good idea, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AstralRT Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 Anyone get any luck with rims/tires? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CCCacher Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 Haven't ordered yet, will do this week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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