LED Retrofit

[radon360]

So, after test driving a couple of Journeys, I chose the premium convenience group. One of the upgrades in this group is the interior lighting is handled using white light emitting diodes (LEDs) which give a noticeably whiter light than the yellowish light typical of a standard incandescent bulb.

Call me a nitpicker, but I thought it to be strange and a bit discongruent that the two bulbs in the liftgate were not also converted over to LEDs. To me, they now stuck out like a sore thumb. So, I decided to bring them inline with the rest of the interior lighting. After taking a measurement of the festoon style bulbs in the liftgate, I popped over to www.superbrightleds.com and searched for a replacement. I ended up getting some 39mm festoon replacements (3910-W6) in "cool white." While I managed to get these to work with little hassle, if I had to do it again, I'd make two minor changes. First, I'd go one length longer. While the 39mm bulbs fit, the 42 x 11mm would probably fit a little better. There's a lot of room for adjustment as the bulb sockets are just metal spring clips. Second, I'd reconsider "warm white" instead. While the warm white are meant to mimick the color temperature of an incandescent bulb, I noticed that the LEDs that were factory installed in the overhead seem to be a slight bit warmer (yellower) than the "cool white" that I purchased. The difference is minute and the cool whites are still a big improvement in appearance over the incandescents.

Installation was fairly straightforward. Take a small flat blade screwdriver and pry off the cover in the two appropriate slots. Remove the incandescent bulbs, make any necessary adjustments to the spring clips and install the LED bulbs. The incandescent bulbs emit light in 360° whereas the LED bulbs are rather one-sided in their projection of light. To prevent rotation, I secured the bulbs with a small piece of transparent tape across the top of the bulbs and clips.

Here's the result

At the same time, I thought I'd add a little bit of "sleekness" to the back at the same time. I also ordered a couple 168 bulb replacements for the license plate. I chose the WLED-W5 in "cool white" in particular because of the way the LED elements are oriented. Unlike my RAM, which the top of the 168 bulb faces the license plate, the Journey uses the side of the 168 bulb to illuminate. As such, any 168 replacement that concentrated the light out what would normally be the top of the bulb would not work properly. The WLED-W5 has LED elements that shoot sideways for a wider illumination pattern, which includes the sides.

Installation was again quite simple. Use the trusty slotted screwdriver to pop out the license plate lamp holders, twist out the lamp bases, remove the bulb, install the LED bulb in its place, then reassemble. This is the result:

Yes, I don't have my personalized plates, yet. But when I do get them, they will be lit with a white light, instead of the yellowish glow of the incandescent 168 bulbs.

I did not tackle any of the 3157 bulbs (turn signals, tail lights) intentionally. First of all, I haven't come across an LED replacement bulb that I felt adequately worked in a reflector type fixture which are now prevalent on most Dodge vehicles (versus the older style Fresnel lensed type fixtures). Most LED bulbs are not very omni-directional, which is a characteristic of the standard 3157 incandescent that these reflector type fixtures rely upon to make a larger surface area of projected light. Second, even if I had found a suitable LED replacement, it would likely require the installation of a ballast resistor across the wiring to the lamp base. This is necessary on the Journey or else you will get a "LAMP OUT" indication on your dashboard. LEDs draw a fraction of the current that an incandescent draws. The ECM monitors the current draw of the exterior lighting system. When it senses a lower than nominal current draw, it makes the assumption that a bulb is burned out and alerts the driver accordingly. So, for now these bulbs will remain incandescent.

So there's a quick summary of my simple evening project.

[larryl]

I agree with the tailgate light now I can make it better thanks

How will the license plate bulbs act in the winter??

[radon360]

How will the license plate bulbs act in the winter??

Shouldn't be a problem. LEDs are solid state and work in a wide range of temperatures. I've done a similar bulb change out on my RAM (license plate, roof-mounted amber clearance lamps, CHMSL) and have had no issues at even -20°F (-29°C).

[Hit-By-Thunder]

how do they work with the lets say, "slow to off" of the original lights? The original lights slowly fade away til they are off but with the LEDS do they just go straight off? I am thinking cause the voltage is slowly dropped off with the regular lights and now using the LEDS does the color change as the turn off?

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE this mod and want to order the lights too But just wanted your opnion of the swap and what happens to yours as they turn off.

Also on the site it shows the High Power LED Festoon Bulbs and the angle is wider but the shafts are just a Hair smaller, 8.8 on the regular Festoons and 8.65 on the high power festoons.

I was at the dealer today and was looking at the headlights and just hate the orange glow of the signal lights. I am wanting to get the siler bulb oraange glow bulbs so when placed in the light housing, you see no orange bulb at all until the signal is used.

Thanks for showing the pictures and part #'s you used,..... SAWEEEEEEET!!!!!!!!!!!!

gets my vote for best mod yet

Rob

[NiceTrip]

Also on the site it shows the High Power LED Festoon Bulbs and the angle is wider but the shafts are just a Hair smaller, 8.8 on the regular Festoons and 8.65 on the high power festoons.

I ordered a pair of the high-power 4210-CWHP3 bulbs today. They have a 120 degree distribution pattern vs. 30 degrees for the regular ones. As soon as they (and our Journey) come in, I'll let you know how they work.

Thanks for the tip Radon! BTW, I could not find any warm white LEDs until you go all the way up to HP6 (6 High-Power LEDs).

[radon360]

how do they work with the lets say, "slow to off" of the original lights? The original lights slowly fade away til they are off but with the LEDS do they just go straight off? I am thinking cause the voltage is slowly dropped off with the regular lights and now using the LEDS does the color change as the turn off?

Rob, to answer your questions: First, the fade remains unaffected. I suspect this is because that instead of just slowly dropping the voltage (think analog), they use something called pulse-width modulation (PWM) to fade the cabin lights. PWM is much easier to implement from a digital control than to perform a digital to analog conversion for the control.** While PWM can be smoothed to closely approximate a steady DC voltage, it can be applied raw in this application to get the same effect without anyone noticing the difference. Wikipedia has an in-depth article on how it works, but the less technically-inclined will gloss over after the first glance. Basically think of someone switching a light switch on and off. They are doing it so fast that you don't even see the light flicker. To get the fade effect, they slowly increase the amount of time that they leave the switch in the off position, and proportionally decrease the amount of time they leave the switch in the on position. They keep doing this until the time that they have the switch in the on position decreases to zero. That's how the lights fade with PWM. You uniformly reduce the average power, instead of just the voltage, delivered to the bulb/LED so that you get a uniform response regardless of whether your light source responds linearly (incandescent filament) or non-linearly (LED).

Second, LEDs emit light from similar principles to that of fluorescents. This means that their light characteristics remain fairly constant regardless of how much power they are consuming in contrast to an incandescent whose color temperature varies with how hot (and resultingly bright) the filament is made. The one exception is if you significantly overdrive an LED, but then other things are happening inside the LED, including damage.

Maybe that's more than you were looking for in an answer!

**Though in this case, a simple RC circuit could be used to drive a power transistor for a true analog control. The fade curve would no longer be linear in this case.

[radon360]

Also on the site it shows the High Power LED Festoon Bulbs and the angle is wider but the shafts are just a Hair smaller, 8.8 on the regular Festoons and 8.65 on the high power festoons.

Just a quick note about this. I found the 10mm diameters to be a little bit loose in the clips, but the clips do have a lot of "manual adjustment" in them.

Beam angle isn't a critical issue since you only need light coming out of one side of the bulb and the clear cover has a fair amount of diffusion already designed into it.

Have fun!

[Hit-By-Thunder]

nope, you explained PERFECTLY!!!!! even for me.

I'll be ordering some just like Nicetrip did

This truely is a GREAT MOD!!!!!!!!!!!!

thanks

Rob

EDIT... Ordered 4 of the WLED-x5 LED Wide Angle LED bulb

and 4 of 4211-x6 LED Festoon bulb

I ordered 2 extras for each,...juuuuuuust incase.

paid for the fast delivery as the car will be here next week, HOPEFULLY

[larryl]

Mine are in the mail-hope they work & look as good as yours

[jamie954rr]

OK, I have read all the posts here and have a hopefully easy question. My Journey, for some reason, doesn't have the LED lights for the interior lighting. I saw in a brochure where they had LED lights on the overhead console. Can I replace all the bulbs in the interior lights to the LED bulbs like the door and plate lights? I got mine with what I thought was loaded until I saw that. I don't know if it is because there is a sunroof and that is why they put the regular lights or what but I would like to change them if I could.

[radon360]

I saw in a brochure where they had LED lights on the overhead console. Can I replace all the bulbs in the interior lights to the LED bulbs like the door and plate lights?

I don't see why not. Your biggest hurdle is just opening up all of the fixtures, determining that size/shape bulbs you need, then opening them up again when you get the bulbs. Most covers pop out, but not having looked closely at a Journey with incandescent interior lighting I can't comment much on the procedure to open the fixtures.

The overheads usually use festoon type bulbs, just like the liftgate. Just take a moment when you get them open and determine how much light dispersement you may need. This will help in your selection process.

Did you get the Premium Convenience Group? I believe that the LED interior comes in this group.

[linaso]

So, after test driving a couple of Journeys, I chose the premium convenience group. One of the upgrades in this group is the interior lighting is handled using white light emitting diodes (LEDs) which give a noticeably whiter light than the yellowish light typical of a standard incandescent bulb....

I too am surprised that Dodge didn't use LED's in the hatch light. I does seem quite odd that they forgot this. I bought 2 each of the 4211x6 festoons in warm white and cool white, as well as 2 0f the WLEDx5 wide angle LED's in cool white for the license plate lights. 4211 festoons are definitely the correct size to use. However, don't wast your money on the warm white festoons. They are practically the same color as the incandescents that come with the Journey. The cool whites are a close match to the other interior LED's. I can hardly notice the difference. I must echo Thunder. This is a truely great mod....an sooo easy. It's about a 5 minute operation to change both the hatch and license plate bulbs. WTG radon!

Quick revision.

I should have waited until dark to write the above. The cool whites are definitely a little bluer, but they are a closer match to the LED's that come with the Journey than the warm whites are. Like I said before, the warm whites look almost like the incandescents and are quite yellow. I my opinion, a little bluer looks much better than alot yellower. Plus a little bluer looks kind of cool. Also, the cool whites on the license plate...very cool.

[W_A_Watson_II]

I noticed that the 4211-WW6 draws 18mA and puts out 8 lumens, while the 4210-WWHP6 draws 163mA (9 times more) and puts out 60 lumens (7.5 times more). There isn't a 4210-WWHP3, but if there was it would still likely be almost 4 times the light.

Does anyone know the draw and lumens of the stock bulbs?

http://www.superbrightleds.com/specs/festoon.htm

http://www.superbrightleds.com/specs/festoonhp.htm

[linaso]

I noticed that the 4211-WW6 draws 18mA and puts out 8 lumens, while the 4210-WWHP6 draws 163mA (9 times more) and puts out 60 lumens (7.5 times more). There isn't a 4210-WWHP3, but if there was it would still likely be almost 4 times the light.

Does anyone know the draw and lumens of the stock bulbs?

http://www.superbrightleds.com/specs/festoon.htm

http://www.superbrightleds.com/specs/festoonhp.htm

I haven't been able to find any information about the lumens for the OEM bulbs. They are #578's. I can say however, that the amount of light given off by the 4211x6 festoons seems very similar to the 578's.

[W_A_Watson_II]

I found this:

The catalog listed the 578 as a 9 candle power bulb.

Multiply candle power by 12.57 to convert to lumens. (http://www.brightguy.com/brighttopics.php)

9 x 12.57 = 113.13 lumens

So the 4210-WWHP6 puts out about half of the 578? I suspect it's as illuminating because no light loose in having to reflect it around in the fixture?

[linaso]

I found this:

The catalog listed the 578 as a 9 candle power bulb.

Multiply candle power by 12.57 to convert to lumens. (http://www.brightguy.com/brighttopics.php)

9 x 12.57 = 113.13 lumens

So the 4210-WWHP6 puts out about half of the 578? I suspect it's as illuminating because no light loose in having to reflect it around in the fixture?

I actually have The 4211-CW6 festoons, not the HP ones. After looking at them for a few minutes now, I can honestly say they are somewhat dimmer than 578's. You do have to point them out towards the lens as the LED's only light on one side. The most noticable difference is with the hatch up and the 3rd row seats up. The light is somewhat dimmer behind the 3rd row seats than with the stock 578's. That's not a big issue to me...yet, as the area is still illuminated. For a Journey without the 3rd row seats, I don't think it would be a big deal either because you also have the factory LED's pointing to the rear (the ones behind the 2nd row pointable LED's), which give off quite a bit of light. All in all, even with less light, I prefer these LED's over the 578 stock bulbs. They just make the interior lighting look a bit more consistant. But now I'm curious! If someone gets the 4210-WWHP6's, I'd like to know how they are? They would probably be more desirable for lighting with the hatch up. But, I'm wondering if they would be too bright with the hatch down and 3rd row seats folded down? Also, they are $15.00 per piece compaired to $4.00 for the non-HP LED's. If the 4210-WWHP6's are a big improvement over the 4211-CW6's, I may break down and buy those as well.

[Remline]

I got the HP bulbs for the back. Man are they bright. Work great. Also bought the wled license plate bulbs. Also an excellent choice. Thanks.

[linaso]

I too am surprised that Dodge didn't use LED's in the hatch light. I does seem quite odd that they forgot this. I bought 2 each of the 4211x6 festoons in warm white and cool white, as well as 2 0f the WLEDx5 wide angle LED's in cool white for the license plate lights. 4211 festoons are definitely the correct size to use. However, don't wast your money on the warm white festoons. They are practically the same color as the incandescents that come with the Journey. The cool whites are a close match to the other interior LED's. I can hardly notice the difference. I must echo Thunder. This is a truely great mod....an sooo easy. It's about a 5 minute operation to change both the hatch and license plate bulbs. WTG radon!

P.S. anyone want 2 ea. 4211x6 warm white festoons? $10 including postage, they're yours.

Quick revision.

I should have waited until dark to write the above. The cool whites are definitely a little bluer, but they are a closer match to the LED's that come with the Journey than the warm whites are. Like I said before, the warm whites look almost like the incandescents and are quite yellow. I my opinion, a little bluer looks much better than alot yellower. Plus a little bluer looks kind of cool. Also, the cool whites on the license plate...very cool.

Another update. After having replaced the rear hatch bulbs and License plate bulbs months ago, I have made an improvement from the previous mod. The HP festoon bulbs are definitely the way to go for the interior rear hatch. They are plenty bright but not too bright and the color matches the other interior LED lights...not too blue like the cool whites, not to yellow like the warm whites. I also upgraded the license plate bulbs from the WLED-5's which were not very bright with 921x12's. The 921x12's just fit in the housing, but nevertheless, they do fit. Here's what I ordered from superbrightleds.com.

Quantity: 2

Product: High Power 12-LED Festoon bulb

Options: 42mm 4210-CWHP12

Quantity: 2

Product: 921-x12 Wedge Base LED bulb

Options: Cool White 921-CW12

[kchillh]

Another update. After having replaced the rear hatch bulbs and License plate bulbs months ago, I have made an improvement from the previous mod. The HP festoon bulbs are definitely the way to go for the interior rear hatch. They are plenty bright but not too bright and the color matches the other interior LED lights...not too blue like the cool whites, not to yellow like the warm whites. I also upgraded the license plate bulbs from the WLED-5's which were not very bright with 921x12's. The 921x12's just fit in the housing, but nevertheless, they do fit. Here's what I ordered from superbrightleds.com.

Quantity: 2

Product: High Power 12-LED Festoon bulb

Options: 42mm 4210-CWHP12

Quantity: 2

Product: 921-x12 Wedge Base LED bulb

Options: Cool White 921-CW12

How much do you want for the old ones?

[Brianw36]

I tried to find 42mm 4210-CWHP12 and I can't seem to find them. Do you know if they have been replaced with something else? Thanks

[OhareFred]

Ordered the bulbs, but one 4210-cwhp12 went DOA when I installed it. Puff of smoke, burning smell, thats all folks! One worked fine. Superbrightleds sending another and will give me a credit when I send the bad one back. Plate bulbs look great! The one 4210-cwhp that works looks pretty good by itself!

[OhareFred]

Ordered the bulbs, but one 4210-cwhp12 went DOA when I installed it. Puff of smoke, burning smell, thats all folks! One worked fine. Superbrightleds sending another and will give me a credit when I send the bad one back. Plate bulbs look great! The one 4210-cwhp that works looks pretty good by itself!

You won't believe this, but the bulb they sent as a replacement was bad as well. Now I am sending them all back for a refund. Not very impressed with their quality control, but maybe I was juat lucky enough to get bad bulbs!

[linaso]

I tried to find 42mm 4210-CWHP12 and I can't seem to find them. Do you know if they have been replaced with something else? Thanks

www.superbrightleds.com has them @ $11.95 ea. You can find them here. http://www.superbrightleds.com/cgi-bin/sto...t=50#4210-xHP12

The "C" in CWHP12 stands for "cool". When you select cool white rather than warm white, you will get CWHP12's rather that WHP12's.

[linaso]

You won't believe this, but the bulb they sent as a replacement was bad as well. Now I am sending them all back for a refund. Not very impressed with their quality control, but maybe I was juat lucky enough to get bad bulbs!

You either have bad luck, or superbrightleds has a bad batch of bulbs. I have had mine in for months now and no problems whatsoever. Knock on wood.

[email4walker]

"I did not tackle any of the 3157 bulbs (turn signals, tail lights) intentionally.......... This is necessary on the Journey or else you will get a "LAMP OUT" indication on your dashboard."

Question: I was looking in the manual, and it said that the turn signal bulb was a 3757. I can not find a 3757 bulb anywhere. Has anyone take the lens apart and saw what bulb is actually in there? It would make sense that a 3157 would be used in all of it, but I just want to make sure.

Also, I read the manual and it does not say anything about a "bulb out" warning. Have you seen it happen? I have switched my front lights to HIDs and one socket is not being used. I did not get a buld out warning.