Sirius signal Loss

[TheStewie]

We had our radio system changed a while back due to some programming errors and we notice that even on a clear day that we get frequent dropouts of the signal.

I at first thought of a loose connection when we hit bumps but it does not happen always at that time. Loss for 5 or 10 seconds is not unusual at times.

I hesitate to call Sirius due to other posts that say you might get a few months free before your activation papers come in.

Is anyone else experiencing the same problem? Any suggestions?

TheStewie

[scott4751]

We had our radio system changed a while back due to some programming errors and we notice that even on a clear day that we get frequent dropouts of the signal.

I at first thought of a loose connection when we hit bumps but it does not happen always at that time. Loss for 5 or 10 seconds is not unusual at times.

I hesitate to call Sirius due to other posts that say you might get a few months free before your activation papers come in.

Is anyone else experiencing the same problem? Any suggestions?

TheStewie

I have had a few instances. One morning it was out for a couple of hours, but it was an issue with Sirius. Another is location, there is one local road where I live that I always get intermittent signal, for about 2 miles. The road is right up against a cliff, that if I had to guess is anywhere from 500 ft to 700 ft. I have lost power to my unit on 3 different occasions and I am waiting until it happens again and then I'll rush to the dealer to troubleshoot. One thing about intermittent electrical issues is that they are hard to nail down unless it is happening right then.

[radon360]

A couple of things that might be helpful in diagnosing your problem:

The patch antenna for the satellite radio is located in the base of your mast antenna on the roof. If you have something on the roof rack, or one of the crossbeams of the roof rack over the top of the base (or nearly over the top), it may cause a loss of signal.

In all of the Sirius radios that I've come across, the antenna isn't simply a passive hunk of metal, either. It is actually an antenna with a frequency downconverter and amplifier built into it and powered by a low voltage sent up the antenna cable. This is done to eliminate the problems associated with carrying a weak signal at microwave frequencies through 20 some feet of cable. If the enclosure around the antenna becomes damaged or develops a hairline fracture that allows moisture to seep in, it will significantly affect the performance of this circuit. I had this happen on one of my aftermarket Sirius installations. The symptoms to watch for are reception problems after the antenna gets wet, such as after rainy conditions or heavy morning dew. The problem tends to go away after the antenna gets a sunny afternoon to dry out a bit. If this sounds like it matches your condition, ask the dealership to replace the antenna (give them the full reason why). No contact with Sirius should be necessary to fix this.

Sirius has terrestrial-based translators in many urban areas. These are transmitters that broadcast the digital data stream on an adjacent frequency band. This signal is meant to fill in what would be annoying signal drops when you get into the "canyons" of tall buildings, some parking structures, and larger overpasses that you stay under for longer durations (e.g. slow traffic conditions). While this terrestrial-based signal is nice, it also is a secondary user of that bandwidth, the primary user being point to point microwave links commonly used by TV and radio stations (the satellite bandwidth has it's own exclusive allocation). It is possible that you may be crossing the path of one of these links, which may be interfering with your reception. What's worse is since they can be nearly adjacent to the satellite frequency bandwidth, they can cause a condition known as "desense" if they are strong enough, effectively drowning out the satellite signals even though they are not transmitting over the top of them. Unfortunately if this is the problem you are experiencing, you don't have much of a choice other than to put up with it. Your receiver (in the United States) is covered under FCC rules part 15, which means that it must accept any interference, even if it causes undesired operation.

If you want to see if your area has a translator, check out this map. You may need to zoom in a little to see the marks in your area.

A side note: Those of you who live in Canada will appreciate that Sirius offers better satellite coverage than XM. XM uses two (actually four, two satellites co-located at each position) geosynchronous equatorial satellites that remain in the exact same position of the sky at all times. As you go further north in latitude, they get closer to the horizon. Sirius uses three satellites in elliptical orbits, which two are visible and transmitting at any one given time. These elliptical orbits are setup in such a manner that if you were to trace their paths on a flat map, it would look like a lop-sided infinity symbol that is vertically oriented (some of this is visible on the above mentioned map). The northern-most point is roughly 66° north latitude, so the satellites spend much of their time directly overhead of the central part of the United States and Canada. If you were able to see these satellites and lived in the midwest , they would rise in the southeast, head northwest to the northwestern sky, linger over to the northeastern sky, then head southwest and set in the southwest. Each satellite does this in a period of about 16 hours. The remaining 8 hours are spent out of view and subsequently switched into standby for power reasons. Then again, if the Sirius/XM merger goes through, it will be interesting to see what they do altogether with the satellite infrastructure.

Okay, back to your problem:

1. Check to make sure nothing is obstructing the view of the sky for your antenna's base. If obstructed, such as by a kayak, bike rack, ski case, or cross beam, this is likely your problem.

2. Note if your radio has problems after the antenna gets wet (rain, car wash, heavy dew). If this seems to be the case, have the antenna replaced.

3. Note when (and possibly where) the problem happens. There are clues to be gleaned from this.

[LBD-CT]

We had our radio system changed a while back due to some programming errors and we notice that even on a clear day that we get frequent dropouts of the signal.

I at first thought of a loose connection when we hit bumps but it does not happen always at that time. Loss for 5 or 10 seconds is not unusual at times.

I hesitate to call Sirius due to other posts that say you might get a few months free before your activation papers come in.

Is anyone else experiencing the same problem? Any suggestions?

TheStewie

Drop outs are a regular problem with either satellite radio company and are especially prevalent in rural areas without ground repeaters. The drop outs tend to happen most frequently under heavy tree cover or bridges or while in some valleys or close to hill sides. The Sirius Satellites rotate around the earth so that at any given time, 2 Satellites are overhead north America, That gives you good reception in some places and not so ggod with others. XM satellites broadcast from a fixed point over the equator and it's much easier to figure out where the dropouts will happen. As a subscriber to both services, I've found, for my location, with no ground repeaters nearby, that Sirius drops out about 5 times more frequently than XM. The one thing that won't affect your satellite radio reception, unlike Satellite TV is clouds. The signal has no trouble penetrating clouds, rain and snow.

here is a site that discusses Sirius, XM and their satellites.

[LBD-CT]

A couple of things that might be helpful in diagnosing your problem:

The patch antenna for the satellite radio is located in the base of your mast antenna on the roof. If you have something on the roof rack, or one of the crossbeams of the roof rack over the top of the base (or nearly over the top), it may cause a loss of signal.

In all of the Sirius radios that I've come across, the antenna isn't simply a passive hunk of metal, either. It is actually an antenna with a frequency downconverter and amplifier built into it and powered by a low voltage sent up the antenna cable. This is done to eliminate the problems associated with carrying a weak signal at microwave frequencies through 20 some feet of cable. If the enclosure around the antenna becomes damaged or develops a hairline fracture that allows moisture to seep in, it will significantly affect the performance of this circuit. I had this happen on one of my aftermarket Sirius installations. The symptoms to watch for are reception problems after the antenna gets wet, such as after rainy conditions or heavy morning dew. The problem tends to go away after the antenna gets a sunny afternoon to dry out a bit. If this sounds like it matches your condition, ask the dealership to replace the antenna (give them the full reason why). No contact with Sirius should be necessary to fix this.

Sirius has terrestrial-based translators in many urban areas. These are transmitters that broadcast the digital data stream on an adjacent frequency band. This signal is meant to fill in what would be annoying signal drops when you get into the "canyons" of tall buildings, some parking structures, and larger overpasses that you stay under for longer durations (e.g. slow traffic conditions). While this terrestrial-based signal is nice, it also is a secondary user of that bandwidth, the primary user being point to point microwave links commonly used by TV and radio stations (the satellite bandwidth has it's own exclusive allocation). It is possible that you may be crossing the path of one of these links, which may be interfering with your reception. What's worse is since they can be nearly adjacent to the satellite frequency bandwidth, they can cause a condition known as "desense" if they are strong enough, effectively drowning out the satellite signals even though they are not transmitting over the top of them. Unfortunately if this is the problem you are experiencing, you don't have much of a choice other than to put up with it. Your receiver (in the United States) is covered under FCC rules part 15, which means that it must accept any interference, even if it causes undesired operation.

If you want to see if your area has a translator, check out this map. You may need to zoom in a little to see the marks in your area.

A side note: Those of you who live in Canada will appreciate that Sirius offers better satellite coverage than XM. XM uses two (actually four, two satellites co-located at each position) geosynchronous equatorial satellites that remain in the exact same position of the sky at all times. As you go further north in latitude, they get closer to the horizon. Sirius uses three satellites in elliptical orbits, which two are visible and transmitting at any one given time. These elliptical orbits are setup in such a manner that if you were to trace their paths on a flat map, it would look like a lop-sided infinity symbol that is vertically oriented (some of this is visible on the above mentioned map). The northern-most point is roughly 66° north latitude, so the satellites spend much of their time directly overhead of the central part of the United States and Canada. If you were able to see these satellites and lived in the midwest , they would rise in the southeast, head northwest to the northwestern sky, linger over to the northeastern sky, then head southwest and set in the southwest. Each satellite does this in a period of about 16 hours. The remaining 8 hours are spent out of view and subsequently switched into standby for power reasons. Then again, if the Sirius/XM merger goes through, it will be interesting to see what they do altogether with the satellite infrastructure.

Okay, back to your problem:

1. Check to make sure nothing is obstructing the view of the sky for your antenna's base. If obstructed, such as by a kayak, bike rack, ski case, or cross beam, this is likely your problem.

2. Note if your radio has problems after the antenna gets wet (rain, car wash, heavy dew). If this seems to be the case, have the antenna replaced.

3. Note when (and possibly where) the problem happens. There are clues to be gleaned from this.

Yeah, what he said...lol. Except I have the cool picture!!! ;-)

[TheStewie]

A couple of things that might be helpful in diagnosing your problem:

The patch antenna for the satellite radio is located in the base of your mast antenna on the roof. If you have something on the roof rack, or one of the crossbeams of the roof rack over the top of the base (or nearly over the top), it may cause a loss of signal.

In all of the Sirius radios that I've come across, the antenna isn't simply a passive hunk of metal, either. It is actually an antenna with a frequency downconverter and amplifier built into it and powered by a low voltage sent up the antenna cable. This is done to eliminate the problems associated with carrying a weak signal at microwave frequencies through 20 some feet of cable. If the enclosure around the antenna becomes damaged or develops a hairline fracture that allows moisture to seep in, it will significantly affect the performance of this circuit. I had this happen on one of my aftermarket Sirius installations. The symptoms to watch for are reception problems after the antenna gets wet, such as after rainy conditions or heavy morning dew. The problem tends to go away after the antenna gets a sunny afternoon to dry out a bit. If this sounds like it matches your condition, ask the dealership to replace the antenna (give them the full reason why). No contact with Sirius should be necessary to fix this.

Sirius has terrestrial-based translators in many urban areas. These are transmitters that broadcast the digital data stream on an adjacent frequency band. This signal is meant to fill in what would be annoying signal drops when you get into the "canyons" of tall buildings, some parking structures, and larger overpasses that you stay under for longer durations (e.g. slow traffic conditions). While this terrestrial-based signal is nice, it also is a secondary user of that bandwidth, the primary user being point to point microwave links commonly used by TV and radio stations (the satellite bandwidth has it's own exclusive allocation). It is possible that you may be crossing the path of one of these links, which may be interfering with your reception. What's worse is since they can be nearly adjacent to the satellite frequency bandwidth, they can cause a condition known as "desense" if they are strong enough, effectively drowning out the satellite signals even though they are not transmitting over the top of them. Unfortunately if this is the problem you are experiencing, you don't have much of a choice other than to put up with it. Your receiver (in the United States) is covered under FCC rules part 15, which means that it must accept any interference, even if it causes undesired operation.

If you want to see if your area has a translator, check out this map. You may need to zoom in a little to see the marks in your area.

A side note: Those of you who live in Canada will appreciate that Sirius offers better satellite coverage than XM. XM uses two (actually four, two satellites co-located at each position) geosynchronous equatorial satellites that remain in the exact same position of the sky at all times. As you go further north in latitude, they get closer to the horizon. Sirius uses three satellites in elliptical orbits, which two are visible and transmitting at any one given time. These elliptical orbits are setup in such a manner that if you were to trace their paths on a flat map, it would look like a lop-sided infinity symbol that is vertically oriented (some of this is visible on the above mentioned map). The northern-most point is roughly 66° north latitude, so the satellites spend much of their time directly overhead of the central part of the United States and Canada. If you were able to see these satellites and lived in the midwest , they would rise in the southeast, head northwest to the northwestern sky, linger over to the northeastern sky, then head southwest and set in the southwest. Each satellite does this in a period of about 16 hours. The remaining 8 hours are spent out of view and subsequently switched into standby for power reasons. Then again, if the Sirius/XM merger goes through, it will be interesting to see what they do altogether with the satellite infrastructure.

Okay, back to your problem:

1. Check to make sure nothing is obstructing the view of the sky for your antenna's base. If obstructed, such as by a kayak, bike rack, ski case, or cross beam, this is likely your problem.

2. Note if your radio has problems after the antenna gets wet (rain, car wash, heavy dew). If this seems to be the case, have the antenna replaced.

3. Note when (and possibly where) the problem happens. There are clues to be gleaned from this.

Lots of info there, thanks.

We have had tons on rain off and on over the last few weeks in southern Ontario so that might explain why even on one ofthe bright sunny days it acts up. I find on one of the large local bridges it does as well but I attribute that to all of the metal in the structure.

I'm going to print out your notes and take a good look at it. The vehicle is going into the shop tomorrow so I might ask them to take a look at the antennae too.

Thanks,

The Stewie

[TheStewie]

Lots of info there, thanks.

We have had tons on rain off and on over the last few weeks in southern Ontario so that might explain why even on one ofthe bright sunny days it acts up. I find on one of the large local bridges it does as well but I attribute that to all of the metal in the structure.

I'm going to print out your notes and take a good look at it. The vehicle is going into the shop tomorrow so I might ask them to take a look at the antennae too.

Thanks,

The Stewie

I just checked that map of transmitter locations. Number 247 is right here and perhaps that is the reason for our failures but I will check the wiring and for cracks.

The Stewie

[radon360]

As a subscriber to both services, I've found, for my location, with no ground repeaters nearby, that Sirius drops out about 5 times more frequently than XM. The one thing that won't affect your satellite radio reception, unlike Satellite TV is clouds. The signal has no trouble penetrating clouds, rain and snow.

Interesting. I'm in the midwest...not more than several hundred miles from where the birds cross overhead. I rarely experience any drop-outs on any of my three receivers, even when out of terrestrial range. I know of three trouble spots, one being stopped underneath an overpass waiting for a traffic light, another on a road with heavy foliage and the third on a hill where one of the terrestrial stations is pretty much gunning the signal right down your throat and desensing any satellite reception almost completely.

Your summation of the usual trouble areas and weather is spot on. I never have a reception issue in even the worst downpours. Wet, heavy, water saturated snow piled on top of the antenna however can lead to reduced performance.

[LBD-CT]

Interesting. I'm in the midwest...not more than several hundred miles from where the birds cross overhead. I rarely experience any drop-outs on any of my three receivers, even when out of terrestrial range. I know of three trouble spots, one being stopped underneath an overpass waiting for a traffic light, another on a road with heavy foliage and the third on a hill where one of the terrestrial stations is pretty much gunning the signal right down your throat and desensing any satellite reception almost completely.

Your summation of the usual trouble areas and weather is spot on. I never have a reception issue in even the worst downpours. Wet, heavy, water saturated snow piled on top of the antenna however can lead to reduced performance.

I wish the dropouts in my area weren't as bad. They'll likely cause me to not re-up when my free year is up. Since my reception is fine in open areas like highways, I'm fairly certain it's not the antenna, but the signal that's marginal. That's too bad, I like many of the Sirius channels. They are a good complement to XM. Not better per se, just different.

[TheStewie]

I wish the dropouts in my area weren't as bad. They'll likely cause me to not re-up when my free year is up. Since my reception is fine in open areas like highways, I'm fairly certain it's not the antenna, but the signal that's marginal. That's too bad, I like many of the Sirius channels. They are a good complement to XM. Not better per se, just different.

We have a natural escarpment a couple hundred feet high here and the transmitter is on a building below the escarpment I suppose to cover the city in the event a satellite can't transmit through it.

I think it might be a combination of all of the rain and the transmitter since the bridge we have the most trouble on is about a half mile away and probably within a hundred feet vertically of the transmitter as we drive across it.

Many times the drop out is so quick you just here the slight pause and its back, but the several second ones are really annoying.

The Stewie