2013 Journey – Fuel tank size??

[bramfrank]

12 hours ago, Lisa Holding said:

When I complained directly to Dodge I was told a couple of gallons could be in the engine. . . . . . This is ridiculous!

 

You were being treated in a truly condescending manner and/or the CSR you dealt with is a complete idiot.  And I'm amazed to still be hearing about this after 6 years.  By now you'd think they'd have figured it out because it is NOT rocket science.

Let's start with: 

 

1. There is no place 'in the engine' for any volume of gas - fuel flows from the tank through the pump and to the injectors.
2. The specification is for what's known as the 'dry capacity' of the gas tank - if there was indeed 'place in the engine' for gas it would be in addition to the tank capacity because the fuel is pressurised by the fuel pump IN the tank - the engine couldn't use any fuel 'in the engine' because once the tank was empty there would be no pressure to drive the fuel through the injectors. 

3. Note that the capacity specification presumes that there is no fuel at all in the tank, which can never happen, unless there's a hole, the tank has been removed and drained or it's a brand, spanking new tank.  So unless the pump is inaccurate you can never pump in the entire 20.5 or however many gallons are specified for your vehicle (AWD vehicle tanks are slightly different from FWD, by the way).

4. If you slowly top up the tank to the point where the fuel level remains at filler's neck, then the tank is full.

Now, it is NOT a good thing to run the tank down to the point where the vehicle stalls too often for a couple of good reasons:

 

1. The fuel in the tank is used to cool the fuel pump.

2. Once the fuel level gets down near the bottom of the tank, the pump may well start to suck in any crud that has settled. 

 

There is a strainer in the pump, but you don't want it to get blocked up if you can avoid it and you don't want the pump to overheat either - those are a relatively expensive repairs, but for the purpose of characterising the issue it shouldn't hurt anything to run the diagnostics.

 

There is no way to completely drain the tank in any case, since the inlet is slightly above the tank floor, this in part to minimise the likelihood of the fuel pump ingesting any crud - but also because the pickup would need to be outside of the tank to do this - so there's likely to be (and I have not done any scientific measurements, so this is just a WAG) a gallon or so that is left in the tank when the vehicle stalls out from fuel starvation . . . .

 

Note that even with a normally operating fuel gauge you have up to 75 miles or even more of range (depending on driving conditions) before it stalls out, so when you fill normally there is likely to be a couple or so gallons of fuel in there above the fuel pump's inlet.

 

Now, there are only two possible explanations for why you can't pump in more than the 14 gallons or so of fuel your report once the gauge reads empty:

 

1. The fuel gauge is not reporting the level properly - and note that for the vast majority of us the gauge DOES work reasonably accurately.

2. The fuel tank is deformed and simply does not have the capacity to hold as much fuel as specified.

There's a third one, though it doesn't affect capacity, just how fast you can fill the tank - and that is:

3. Because the filler pipe might be kinked.

It could always be a combination of these three, of course.

The way to figure out which it likely is requires experimentation and a tiny bit of logic :

1. Fill a gas canister with a known amount of fuel - one or two accurately pumped gallons of fuel should suffice - and put that in the vehicle.

2. Note the mileage and fuel gauge position when the 'low fuel' light comes on.

3. Continue to drive the vehicle until the engine starts to sputter, pull over and switch off the engine - try not to be too far from a quality gas station that has reasonably accurate pumps.
4. Note the gauge position, mileage and reset the fuel economy gauge.

5. Pour all the fuel in the gas canister into the tank, drive to the gas station and fill the tank TO THE BRIM, topping it up until you see fuel in the neck that does not flow down the tube when you stop filling.

6. Note the amount of fuel you pumped in, add the amount of fuel that was in the a canister to the total and subtract the amount of fuel that was used to get to the station based on the economy gauge readout and the distance travelled from the 'sputter point'.

 

By doing this you will have characterised the amount of 'reserve range and the relative positions of the fuel gauge when it goes into reserve and when the vehicle is out of usable fuel.

 

- If the gauge position at the 'sputter point' is too high then it is a perception issue.

- If you get a number like 14 gallons the problem is the tank itself.
- If you pumped in 18-20 gallons of gas then it is going to be the fuel level sender and/or the device (known as an A to D converter) that converts the sender's data to a value that the vehicle's BCM uses - the part may actually be IN the BCM, but that's just a detail.

- If you can't fill the tank at the pump's normal speed, then likely the filler is crimped or kinked . . . . . but you should still be able to fill the tank, albeit slowly.  If the pipe is bent or crimped it may also be a sign that the tank is deformed.

And with the information gleaned from this test you should have the information necessary to get the problem resolved.  Of course it could be that you aren't running the tank down to the bottom  1/8 of a 20 gallon tank being about 2.5 gallons - add that to the 'unusable' gallon or two and pumping 14 or so gallons in because you used none of the reserve might well be normal.

 

I don't know why FCA hasn't done this (or perhaps they have and determined that the cost to repair is high enough that they simply don't want to admit it).

Please let us know what you determine.

Edited September 23, 2016 by bramfrank

[Taniam1975]

I got my 2016 Journey Crossroad about 4 months ago and have had the same exact problem.  It will only fill it up to around 14.5 gallons after the low fuel light comes on.  One time I got it to fill up a little over 15 gallons after driving a couple miles beyond the point that the "low fuel" light came on, but it was seriously only a few miles.  I called the dealer and they told me the reserve was 5-6 gallons and that there could be nothing that would cause something like that.    

The fuel gauge never shows that it's completely full after a fill up either.  

A friend suggested keeping a gas can in it as well and to drive it until it dies to see how much I can pump in afterwards.  I drive a lot for work and it's all interstate, so it's hard for me to plan a good possible location for my car to run out of fuel.  Especially since it's so unknown as to how many miles I will make it after the light goes on before it happening, but I should be able to try it out tomorrow.  Will report back.

Just so frustrating. 

[jkeaton]

I fill my car back up when it gets to just below 1/4 tank. I don't care how much goes in, don't care how much I use. I just make a habit of filling at that point. Never have to worry about little annoyances like that.

[vicmontana]

CAN BE THE PROBLEM FROM DEPENDING  HOW MANY SEATS HAVING THE JOURNEY 7 OR 5??, BECAUSE MY PREVIOUS DODGE JOURNEY 2009 AND 2014 THEY HAD ONLY 5 SEATS AND I DID NOT HAVE THIS ISSUES, BUT ON MY 2016 JOURNEY 7 SEATS JUST BAYED 1 MONTH AGO, I HAD SAME ISSUE ONLY 14 GALLONS  ( 54 LITERS) IN  AFTER RED LIGHT, I THINKING MAYBE THIS MODEL USING DIFFERENT TANK MODEL WHICH CAN BE SMALLER AND DON'T MACING WITH  THE FUEL INDICATOR?! WHEN THE TANK IS FULL The fuel gauge never shows that it's completely full after a fill up either, IT IS BELOW "F" ON SECOND LINE.

THANK you.

[Mr. Fix it]

Just got our 2010 SXT 2wd DJ a few weeks ago and learning lots about it.

I don't understand why though when I change the display to Std (non Metric) it uses the USA measurements. after all it's a Canadian sold SUV...

[bramfrank]

58 minutes ago, Mr. Fix it said:

Just got our 2010 SXT 2wd DJ a few weeks ago and learning lots about it.

I don't understand why though when I change the display to Std (non Metric) it uses the USA measurements. after all it's a Canadian sold SUV...

 

That's because you are North America, where they use US measure in the United States and Metric in Canada - why would you want English Measure?  No one uses that for fuel any more, not even the Brits.

[Windancer]

14 hours ago, bramfrank said:

 

That's because you are North America, where they use US measure in the United States and Metric in Canada - why would you want English Measure?  No one uses that for fuel any more, not even the Brits.

As Bramfrank mentioned because you live in Ontario and have a Canadian Journey I'm not really sure why you would want the American system. Remember there is 2 non metric systems, Imperial and U.S. measurements. Your Journey, like mine has the American equivalents, so when your car reads 20 mpg US , it's actually 25 mpg (Imperial) in something you're more accustomed to. Remember the US system is different than the English Imperial System.

 

Terry

[Mr. Fix it]

On 4/28/2018 at 8:20 PM, bramfrank said:

 

That's because you are North America, where they use US measure in the United States and Metric in Canada - why would you want English Measure?  No one uses that for fuel any more, not even the Brits.

Good question. I am of the generation here in Canada that had the imperial scale 9just like the Brits used to) of measurement taught to us when I was in grade school.

I still struggle a bit when someone say it's going to be a nice sunny warm day wit ha high of 29c.

I respond with, that's great but how warm is it going to get??? LOL! - Yes I know how to convert but that's not the point .

the Canadians know we used to use the imperial scalle and this is a Canadain sold Journey so it should convert back to imperial. We never used the USA scale for measuring a gallon of fuel.

It must be another form of trying to Americanize us LOL!!!

[Mr. Fix it]

21 hours ago, Windancer said:

As Bramfrank mentioned because you live in Ontario and have a Canadian Journey I'm not really sure why you would want the American system. Remember there is 2 non metric systems, Imperial and U.S. measurements. Your Journey, like mine has the American equivalents, so when your car reads 20 mpg US , it's actually 25 mpg (Imperial) in something you're more accustomed to. Remember the US system is different than the English Imperial System.

 

Terry

Thanks for the support on this comment!

Once I realized the convert was in the US format I simply added 20% and I'm good to go.

[Windancer]

1 hour ago, Mr. Fix it said:

Thanks for the support on this comment!

Once I realized the convert was in the US format I simply added 20% and I'm good to go.

No problem Mr. Fix It,  I too am of the age where I grew up on the Imperial system. It was very strange to "relearn" the metric system. It was 1977 and I was in University studying to be an Architect. That was a real learning experience, was it a 2x4 or a 38x89 wood stud as an example. It's strange I have embraced the metric system yet I still say I'm 5' 10 and weigh 200 pounds, some things just don't change....... ;-)

 

[sundevil11]

I have a 2016 Dodge Journey SXT.  The manual says that the gas tank capacity is 20.5 gallons.  When I bought it and first started driving it, I would get the low fuel light at about 35 - 45 miles.  When I would fill it I would only be able to put 14.5 gallons in topping it off.   I have since realized that the instrumentation is off, and off on purpose.  I have two theories.  

 

1.  They don't want people topping off, even though the impact on the environment is inconsequential

2.  The car was designed to appeal to a female market.  The psychology in that marketing is to create an incredible fuel reserve buffer so that a female driver would have a harder time running out of gas in that car.

 

I hate this feature.  It reduces effective range.  So what I do is when I get the low fuel icon, I start watching my DTE value very closely.  When it gets below 40 miles, I watch it really close.  At about 35 miles, it switches over to the LOW FUEL message.  I then record my odometer setting.  At that point, I know I have exactly (4) gallons left.  At 20 mpg that is a range of 80 miles.  I write down the odometer setting + 80 on a piece of paper I keep in the cup holder, and manage my travel so that I get to a gas station before I hit that bingo value.  I still have never been able to put 20.5 gallons in the tank.  The closest I've gotten is 19.5 gallons.

 

Fuel pumps pump fuel through a hose from point A to point B.  That's really hard to do when the fuel pump is inside the tank.  Generally there is a trap at the outflow there.  If your fuel pump was ever installed inside your fuel tank, it would make it very difficult to remove and replace.

[2late4u]

i cant believe i just lost 2 minutes of my life reading this post,

[OhareFred]

IDK, when the gauge reads between 1/4 & 1/3 I go fill it up, then it reads full.  I then drive till it gets back to 1/4 & 1/3 and fill up again.  I never run out of  gas that way.  I really don’t care how much I put in.  Just me.....

[jkeaton]

On 9/26/2018 at 9:09 PM, OhareFred said:

IDK, when the gauge reads between 1/4 & 1/3 I go fill it up, then it reads full.  I then drive till it gets back to 1/4 & 1/3 and fill up again.  I never run out of  gas that way.  I really don’t care how much I put in.  Just me.....

 

Same here. Lol. When it gets low, I fill it up. I don’t care how much. It is what it is. 

[larryl]

Yikes...I think it was designed that way so you dont BURN out your pump which is in the tank by running on fumes to do some scientific study that means nothing.

You will be back on here bitching about a bad fuel pump soon.....

[Windancer]

On ‎4‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 7:23 PM, Mr. Fix it said:

Just got our 2010 SXT 2wd DJ a few weeks ago and learning lots about it.

I don't understand why though when I change the display to Std (non Metric) it uses the USA measurements. after all it's a Canadian sold SUV...

I have a 2010 Dodge Journey R/T and I live in Canada. I have always been bothered by the fact it uses USA measurements nothing against our southern neighbours.. This is a really good reason to use the metric eqivalents, after all 99% of the world is metric.

 

Terry

[2late4u]

3 hours ago, Windancer said:

I have a 2010 Dodge Journey R/T and I live in Canada. I have always been bothered by the fact it uses USA measurements nothing against our southern neighbours.. This is a really good reason to use the metric eqivalents, after all 99% of the world is metric.

 

Terry

well dodge is based in the U.S. guess its because of that reason. But i do wonder what about imports are their metrics or standard like the usa, have never owned an import to know any difference...

[2late4u]

3 hours ago, larryl said:

Yikes...I think it was designed that way so you dont BURN out your pump which is in the tank by running on fumes to do some scientific study that means nothing.

You will be back on here bitching about a bad fuel pump soon.....

actually i believe the fuel pumps were moved to the gas tanks yrs ago because it made it more standard and less parts that had to be added onto the engine for all the different car models. i worked at Chrysler Huntsville Electronics for 28 yrs and remember all the different parts we made for different car manufactures. fuel pump sending units, oil sender units  speedometer clusters all the different computer modules ,radios, air bags senders,and many more automotive parts. we made parts for ford,gm, and many different import makers as well.

[Windancer]

1 hour ago, 2late4u said:

well dodge is based in the U.S. guess its because of that reason. But i do wonder what about imports are their metrics or standard like the usa, have never owned an import to know any difference...

Very true, I'm certainly not saying it's wrong, just confusing to us northerners......LOL

 

Terry

 

[2late4u]

1 hour ago, Windancer said:

Very true, I'm certainly not saying it's wrong, just confusing to us northerners......LOL

 

Terry

 

its like when your working on your journey and the dam wrench is just a little loose then you have to stop and hunt for the metric wrench or socket and then realize dam

 i dont have that size ,then have to reach for the vice grips....LOL plays both ways on us southerns    take care up there i might have to get out of my shorts here in another month or two...