Hid in high beam, what about the drl

[CorbeilS]

Hi everyone

I got a little question concerning hid convertion on highbeam on 2012 dj.

My truck have drl, and i know that drl are low voltage send to highbeam. If i plug a hid balast on that, does it will blow the balast or simply it will not light?

Thanks a lot!

Steve

[bramfrank]

Don't do it. DRLs are required by law - and even if you decided to re-engineer the vehicle and install your own separate DRLs it isn't legal to do so. Then again neither are headlight conversions.

About the only thing that you can do that is legal is to install auxiliary lighting and even that is subject to limitations.

If you decide to proceed, you'd be well advised to install a relay that will completely cut voltage to the ballasts if the low beams are not on . . .

Edited April 7, 2013 by bramfrank

[CorbeilS]

Thanks for your information!

I think hid will only be for lowbeam

Have a nice day!

[webslave]

My guess and this is just that, a guess, as I have no desire to ever have HIDs, is that you won't be able to have both HID high beams and DRLs from the same units. HIDs require a certain voltage, as supplied by the ballasts used for both starting and operation, and that operation at ~ 1/2 nominal voltage as the DRLs do would not be enough to trip the ballast into firing the HIDs up, nor do I think that the HIDs will operate, or operate very long, at half their nominal voltage.

I've never seen an HID equipped car using the HID units as DRLs; usually those cars are the ones with dedicated LED DRLs to cover the above issue. I don't know the legality involved in Canada; however, if LED DRLs are approved for use in Canada (as used on BMWs, Mercedes, etc.), I don't see why it would be illegal to use them on your Journey post HID conversion, provided the HID conversion itself is legal. Frankly, I'd like to see them ban HID units unless the car was expressly designed (proper projector and housing systems for control of the beam) as I consider them a major hazard to other drivers on the road due to errant scatter and poor installation by most DIY mechanics that don't have access to the proper headlight aiming tools and use an "I guess this is close enough" analysis of beam pattern and aim. HIDs were designed for a particular design of housing and beam control, and IMHO, trying to "plug and play" them into a housing designed for halogen lamps is a hazard to other drivers.

[bramfrank]

Interesting post webslave;

What you may not realise is that basic headlight approvals are part and parcel of the vehicle as delivered to the dealer by the manufacturer. There is no such thing as a legal headlight conversion. in fact you can't even legally substitute a high wattage bulb for the OEM bulb. So technically you already have your wish - conversions are banned. Unfortunately the ban isn't enforced much except where the conversion is blinding or the officer has stopped you and has nothing else to ticket you for.

Similarly DRLs are also approved as part of the package - at least in Canada where they are mandatory. I can't comment on what the US allows, since DRLs are a user option.

In any case HIDs are not used for high beams by OEMs, except as part of a single bulb solution where they are controlled by a solenoid - HIDs simply take too long to turn on, so manufacturers with two reflector designs use conventional bulbs for the high beams.

[Mcgusto82]

Not not sure how the uConnect radio works in Canadá, but here in the US, there is an option to turn off the DRLs.

(which is funny cause they aren't turned on)

So try playing with that setting, if you can in fact shut them off, then you can add your HIDs

You can possibly add some LEDs to the front of the DJ and connect them to acc power to have them on while the car is on (if you need DRLs)

I think you need them in Canada, you DON'T need them in US.

Let us know how it goes.

[bramfrank]

OP is in Canada. They are mandatory. We have no option to disable them.

[webslave]

Interesting post webslave;

What you may not realise is that basic headlight approvals are part and parcel of the vehicle as delivered to the dealer by the manufacturer. There is no such thing as a legal headlight conversion. in fact you can't even legally substitute a high wattage bulb for the OEM bulb. So technically you already have your wish - conversions are banned. Unfortunately the ban isn't enforced much except where the conversion is blinding or the officer has stopped you and has nothing else to ticket you for.

Similarly DRLs are also approved as part of the package - at least in Canada where they are mandatory. I can't comment on what the US allows, since DRLs are a user option.

In any case HIDs are not used for high beams by OEMs, except as part of a single bulb solution where they are controlled by a solenoid - HIDs simply take too long to turn on, so manufacturers with two reflector designs use conventional bulbs for the high beams.

That is the way it is in the US also, except that there is a mechanism for getting a "custom built" or "modified" vehicle inspected and approved. There is a process in place, in the US and I'm going to assume in Canada also, that allows for a person to design a custom vehicle or vehicle modification and then to get that design or modification approved for street use. Many car aficionados design cars from the ground up with "non-standard" parts and then go through the process of testing and "licensing" that vehicle for street use; regardless of how the "original" car shipped from the factory. Unless it is against the law in Canada to own a "hot rod" or "custom modified" vehicle at all; i.e., the only cars allowed on the streets are 100% stock, then there must be some mechanism in place to get them approved and licensed as "meeting the requirements of nnnnn statute" and be licensable. If not, I feel for those in the Canada that like the "not stock" auto venue. Much the same with building a custom towable trailer...it must meet certain frame, length, width and lighting regulations, but, you can build one and get it licensed for street use; at least in the US. If you can't do any of that in Canada, I'm just a little bit happier about the US's regulatory system. If LEDs are approved for DRL use in Canada, I still would think that there would be a process in place to make the conversion (adding LEDs as the DRL requirement) and get it approved, thus freeing up the high beam housing for any conversions desired, as long as those conversions, don't in themselves, break other laws.

Again, I don't care for the conversions and would just as soon the OP not make any modifications (HID-wise) to the Journey, but, I'm just trying to understand the legal process for custom modifieds in Canada; I wouldn't think they would be that different from the US, but, stranger things happen.

[bigtsr]

Custom modified (hotrods) are not illegal in Canada,

we have many street legal gofast pieces of gear on the roads.

Having said that I believe Bramfranks point is that when it

comes to mandated things such as headlights if a cop gets cranky

he can play hardball by playing strictly by the federally

mandated regulations.

We here in Ontario have a regular mandated vehicle inspection

which is scheduled for 7 yrs after date of manufacture but it

is aimed only at pollution controls,if the Ministry of Transport

wants they can pull your car/truck/trailer off the road at any

of their unsheduled hiway inspections.

I have never had any of my modded cars fail any inspection,

they don't go out of their way to nail you except on slow times

or you piss them off in anyway.

[webslave]

What does Canada do for cars that come standard with only LED DRLs (I believe that late model BMW, Mercedes and and some Porsche)? I'm sure there is a re-written code somewhere that allows for LED DRL compliance or does Canada make all of those auto makers delete their LED DRLs and install some sort of "special harness" that would light their headlights? If those vehicles are allowed to have LED DRLs, I don't see how they can judge any car with LED DRLs deficient just because they weren't "stock". It would seem that if they qualified as meeting the requirements for DRL usage, then any car with them would be legal...as long as they met the required specifications; I would suspect there is a height, width and lumen specification for them if allowed, much as ours have to meet DOT specifications. As long as our lighting meets DOT speciifications, then they are legal, whether stock or not.

We have vehicle inspections in the US...I wish ours was 7 years. Our inspections are annual and some localities require not only the annual state inspection, but, a local inspection in addition to it and I understand some localities have their inspections every 6 months. Nothing against Canada, but, I'm glad I don't live there...we are slowly losing our freedoms, but, we've apparently got a bit more elbow room than those to our north with regards to automobiles and a few other things that aren't pertinent to this forum.

Edited April 10, 2013 by webslave

[bigtsr]

I won't pretend to know the procedure nor the rules for new vehicle

type acceptance but your right about the LED lights on many of the

new vehicles.

I would imagine that passing would be as simple as following the

preset height and lumen standards of the original passcodes.

[bramfrank]

Vehicles are certified by their manufacturers to meet the requirements. Changes to a vehicle 'break' those certifications and are thus not legal. While there may well be a mechanism to recertify a modified vehicle, it would require a lab and likely be prohibitively cost inefficient. So many people blindly make changes (note that many web sites that sell lighting have disclaimers) and hope for the best. Most get away with it, but like I said, a cop looking for a reason to write a ticket may make you regret your investment.

The best mod is to stuff in an HIR bulb - doubles the light output and is otherwise undetectable.

[webslave]

I agree about the HIR as opposed to the HID... As I mentioned above, I'm not a fan of the HID nor like being on the receiving end of an HID setup in a Halogen designed housing. I run HIRs in the truck (and have some on order for the Journey) as well as having run them in the Jeep. Much brighter, but, a simple stock swap (after modifiying the tabs slightly on the ones I get) and you maintain beam aim and cutoff so that it isn't annoying to other drivers. Mostly was just curious about the certification laws in Canada...sounds much more convoluted and complex than those down here in the US. Basically, the manufacturer gets the "certification" that their part meets DOT requirements for the application that it is designed for. The customer then installs said modification and takes it up to the inspection with the certification paper from the manufacturer and gets it inspected. Done deal. Suspension mods and frame mods are a bit more involved since they are usually a "one off" by the builder, but, there are inspections stations for those too and once they are passed, they are issued a title and you are then good to go. You are issued a "compliance certificate" that you can present to a law enforcement officer if you get stopped, but, once it has tags and the local inspection stickers on the windshield on it, unless you have a "really out there" modification, the odds of you getting stopped are virtually nil. It is a bit of a hastle, but, the specifications for getting approved are available and if you adhere to the requirements, it is more of a paper chase than anything else.