Dodge Journey in need of serious R & D

[burgandy25]

As in Research and Development. If Dodge is going to take the Dodge Journey into teh future and not kill it off after a few refreshes they seriously should look into doing some more R & D. I know every car has its problems but the DJ is a great looking car, great features and has a great price. I mean thats why we got it, you too right? But after first year "woos" they still have problems, brake problems, drivetrain problems, rust problems. There have been complaints and warranty repairs but they are still using the same components and have not done substantial upgrades to rid the problem. I hate to say it but since the introduction of the DJ there have been drivetrain problems (just search the forum and you'll find loads to threads) and yet they are putting out the same software and same "hardware" in our cars. Those with flashes still have problems, and those who have HUGE problems are told its normal. From what I understand Chrysler did do something about the brakes but it wasn't a good fix. Now if Chrysler wants to succeed with this car they need a revamp of everything under the sheetmetal. Litteraly, really? water getting stuck inside the door panels? If a car is having problems like that there was a major engineering problem. Light sockets getting melted, bumper fitment problems, and much more. Maybe I'm just a littls flustered after our DJs tranny took a dump and magically fixed itself without the Dodge Mechs. knowing what happened. But I think they should step back and take a deep breath and give everything a more thourough test before they release it to the public.

[Lebowski]

But after first year "woos"

First year? More like first week. In a sense I'm lucky since I didn't have problems with the engine (different model over here) and the brakes (but I think it's just a matter of time, crossing fingers), but I have the rust and I absolutely hate the software: radio, mp3 player, climate control, cruise control, edit automatic headlamps, nothing works as it should.

Edited April 24, 2013 by Lebowski

[burgandy25]

It's laziness. Pure laziness in some ways, for example. The manuals oil change states I believe something like 5,000 miles? (off the top of my head) and the computer in the car goes off after 3,500 miles. Apparently someone didn't get the memo in regards to the oil changing interval.

[CDNGeer]

I thought that the oil change indicator depended on driving style/conditions. Page 580 of OM...

"

Your vehicle is equipped with an automatic oil change

indicator system. The oil change indicator system will

remind you that it is time to take your vehicle in for

scheduled maintenance.

Based on engine operation conditions, the oil change

indicator message will illuminate. This means that service

is required for your vehicle. Operating conditions

such as frequent short-trips, trailer tow, extremely hot or

cold ambient temperatures, and E85 fuel usage will

influence when the “Change Oil” or “Oil Change Required”

message is displayed. Severe Operating Conditions

can cause the change oil message to illuminate as

early as 3,500 miles (5,600 km) since last reset. Have your

vehicle serviced as soon as possible, within the next 500

miles (805 km)."

[burgandy25]

For how all the factors in how we drive there is no reason to do it as early as 3,500mi. It has never changed and it will probably never change.

[CDNGeer]

Fair enough, I was just trying to help. I've noticed with my Caliber that it does seem to vary slightly, but it usually chimes at around 5000km. That is fairly typical for the climate we have here in Saskatchewan. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the Caliber has some sort of oil life determinant as well, probably different from the one the Journey uses however.

[burgandy25]

I didn't know the DJ had a computer to determine the mileage between changes, our 08 Astra also has this. But I don't understand why it has never changed. Idk just my thoughts.

[CDNGeer]

Yeah, it seems to be fairly consistent int terms of the usual mileage the indicator goes on, but with some variance. I would be very interested to see what kind of algorithms it depends on, even the specific inputs the system takes and the weights that each are given.

[onecrazyfoo4u]

My oil indicator light comes on right around 7,500-8,000 miles every time (manual states change oil every 8k miles for a 2012). I've been changing mine every 8k miles with mobile 1 without any issues to date (currently 27k miles on it).

[burgandy25]

You would think the Comp. Would know if the oil is synth, or dino, not to start another oil thread, but since the computer can tell what octane fuel is in it; You think the car would be able to tell if the oil is synthetic or not and adjust change intervals around that as well.

[webslave]

For how all the factors in how we drive there is no reason to do it as early as 3,500mi. It has never changed and it will probably never change.

I've got 3832 miles on mine and, as of now, the "change oil" indicator has not come on. I suspect, that for most of us, the Journey is used in the "normal" pattern as anticipated by the programmer's with Dodge and that once a driving routine is "settled in", it won't change or it won't change much. We own rather sedate people movers and most of the driving is the same, over a given time period, so the algorythms wouldn't change the distance very much.

My truck, on the other hand, shows a wide variance when it calculates the oil change is due; most of the time it just sits with the occaisional hauling required around the homestead, but, if I'm towing my RV (11,600 lbs) it will show a wide variance of when it comes on, as little as 3800 miles if I'm towing a lot in the Rockies, or as much as 6500 miles towing in the Heartland. Around town, it doesn't normally come on at all (I don't drive enough around town to rack up the mileage necessary before I'm off towing the RV again).

Since most of us have a "routine" usage for our Journeys, I would suspect most folks to have a fairly set pattern for when their oil would be calculated to needing a change. That distance, though, could vary a great deal based on what our "normal" duty cycle would be. Here in the "country", there isn't much stop and go driving, it is usually a fairly constant 45-55 mph until we get to town (17 miles away) and that town has two stop lights and "main street" (where the businesses are) is only about 6 blocks long. If I need major shopping, we are talking about 1-2 hours away and mostly all highway driving. I would expect my interval to be longer, than say, someone that lived in town or the suburbs and had to deal with much more of the stop and go type driving or the short trips involved with taking kids to ballgames, school, doctors, etc. (our youngest is 42 years old; he's on his own for getting places!).

[webslave]

You would think the Comp. Would know if the oil is synth, or dino, not to start another oil thread, but since the computer can tell what octane fuel is in it; You think the car would be able to tell if the oil is synthetic or not and adjust change intervals around that as well.

The car doesn't know what the fuel's octane is...it just sets the timing to where the engine is just short of pinging. Octane varies the resistance to pinging (the higher the octane, the harder it is to ignite, the less likely it is to ping; that's why with modern computer control, it does no good to put higher octane in the vehicle than what the designers built it for and if the car runs fine on low ocatane, the engine will adjust to use it and you'll pocket the price difference). It doesn't know what the octane is, it just knows when the ping starts and it adjusts the mixture and timing accordingly. Oil, is oil. There isn't a way to determine lubricity (at least not an easy, cheaply applied way) for the car's computer to change an interval. Most auto makers, don't make a distinguishing point on when to change based on the type of oil used. The owner's manual doesn't say change at x miles if Dino, but, go xx miles if Synthetic. It says in the manual or, via the computer, to change "now" based on run times, # of stops, idle time, vehicle load, etc (duty cycle). That's the most reliable basis for the company to determine when to change the oil, regardless of the oil type to protect the engine. Their aim is to protect the engineering investment and the longevity of the engine (both critical aspects of a buyer's opinion of the car), so, their "ideal" is change frequently. Fresh oil, regardless of the type, Dino, Synth or a mix, is best for engine longevity. Most of us though, temper that with what we feel is "best" based on economy of changes.

Short of an oil analysis (which I use), it is "best" if you take the computer's word for when it needs to be changed. There is no hard and fast rule about when to change it. Folks can say "I'm using N brand synthetic and I can go 13,000 miles before changing!", but, short of an analysis of the old oil, they are just guessing and that "guess" could cost them an engine. I don't hold to the old notion of 3,000 mile changes, either, so don't get me wrong... Engine technology and oil technology has changed greatly and intervals can be extended without fear of damaging the engine, but, the length that they can be extended is still "guesswork", and I'll wager the computer is probably closer to the truth than a "guess" by a synthetic oil company's advertising. Oil isn't cheap, whether Dino or Synthetic, but, today's engines aren't either (I can remember the $250 V-8 short block in the crate...). I would spend the money on the oil (consider it an investment) and save the engine. When the oil light comes on, I'll change it (unless the analysis says different) and I don't say "I just changed it 3500 miles ago, it can't be shot already!" (especially in the truck when I'm towing), because, I don't know for a fact that maybe I've been harder on the oil than I thought...

Edit for glaring grammar (I'm sure there is still more...)...

Edited April 27, 2013 by webslave

[rolly]

Webslave,

As usual very informative post AND good grammar!

[Doug D]

You would think the Comp. Would know if the oil is synth, or dino, not to start another oil thread, but since the computer can tell what octane fuel is in it; You think the car would be able to tell if the oil is synthetic or not and adjust change intervals around that as well.

There is no sensor that actually senses the viscosity, dino, synthetic, etc of the oil. The oil change reminder comes on based on an algorithm taking into account your personal driving habits. So if you do a lot of city type driving, you can expect the oil changer reminder to come on around 2,500 miles (500 before it is due). If you do more highway type driving, it will indicate an oil change is needed at 5,500 miles (again - 500 miles before it is due). That's how it works - plain and simple.

[burgandy25]

There is no sensor that actually senses the viscosity, dino, synthetic, etc of the oil. The oil change reminder comes on based on an algorithm taking into account your personal driving habits. So if you do a lot of city type driving, you can expect the oil changer reminder to come on around 2,500 miles (500 before it is due). If you do more highway type driving, it will indicate an oil change is needed at 5,500 miles (again - 500 miles before it is due). That's how it works - plain and simple.

Yeah I know thats how it works, but when it never changes its pretty annoying telling you to change the oil way before you need to.