Down shifting around third gear kicks or jumps more than often

[pdaddzy]

Ever since we purchased our 2012 Journey in May of 2012 I have noticed the jerking that occurs from what I can tell around third gear. It is kind of hard to duplicate and I took a tech on a ride but was unable to duplicate it. This of course makes it sound like it is not a problem but it is. I saw some forums state to just wait and see if goes away after some mileage is put on it but we are around 3500 miles now and it acts exactly the same way as it did the first week.

I was in Target the other day and a couple came over to me and said they noticed me getting out of a Journey and asked how I liked it. I said we love the vehicle but the gear shifting around gear three really aggravates me. They lit up with excitement because they experience the same issue and no one at the dealership seems to acknowledge it. They have takes their Journey in several times and the tech just says it is nothing. I was told by the tech that it could just be a programming change that needs to be made because maybe it is told to switch too early or too late but Dogde will not reprogram unless it becomes a huge deal and because it would be a large release of the program, not just to fix certain cases.

I know computers and programming have a lot to do with vehicles these days and I am OK with having to have it reprogrammed but I do not understand why I can Google this topic and find many people with the same problem and Dodge seems to be ignoring it. I have never bought a new car and my wife and I decided it was time to take that plunge and I hate that I have this uneasy feeling about my new vehicle that has has a problem since day one that no one seems to recognize.

Have I missed a forum that explains how I can get this fixed? Is there a process I can go through to get some resolution. I know there are others out there with this issue, do you have any recommendations?

Thanks

[Journeyman425]

Post the last eight digits of your VIN and the approximate mileage on the car now ( I don't think you have enough posts to PM me directly) and I'll check if any software updates are available for your transmission. The shifting is a sore spot with many owners and even I don't care for how it shifts in certain conditions (not all). The transmission itself is extremely reliable. The software which controls it is the issue. There have been improvements; I can check to see if they are available for yours.

[pdaddzy]

Thank you for your response, sorry it has taken me so long to respond.

The last eight digits are CT282811 and the mileage is about 13K. I figured it was all software but the tech made it sound like if the "big guys" don't think there is a problem then no updates will be made.

Thank you for your assistance.

[Journeyman425]

This TSB (Technical Service Bulletin) applies to your Journey. Schedule an appointment to have it done, as I checked your Warranty history and I see no record of its completion along with your last oil change. This should improve the shift quality of your transmission. The symptoms you describe closely resemble the issues that this reflash is designed to address. The check engine light (MIL) does not have to be on for this bulletin to apply. Software updates for multiple issues are often bundled together, as in this case. Read on:

This bulletin is supplied as technical information only and is not an authorization for repair. No part of this publication may be reproduced, stored in a retrieval system,

or transmitted, in any form or by any means, electronic, mechanical, photocopying, or otherwise, without written permission of Chrysler Group LLC.

**THIS SERVICE BULLETIN IS ALSO BEING RELEASED AS RAPID RESPONSE

TRANSMITTAL (RRT) 13-011. ALL APPLICABLE SOLD AND UN-SOLD RRT VIN's

HAVE BEEN LOADED. TO VERIFY THAT THIS RRT SERVICE ACTION IS

APPLICABLE TO THE VEHICLE, USE VIP OR PERFORM A VIN SEARCH IN

TECHCONNECT. ALL REPAIRS ARE REIMBURSABLE WITHIN THE PROVISIONS OF

WARRANTY.**

THE wiTECH SOFTWARE LEVEL MUST BE AT RELEASE 13.01 OR HIGHER TO

PERFORM THIS PROCEDURE.

SUBJECT:

Flash: MIL Illumination P0108 - Manifold Absolute Pressure Sensor Circuit High And

Transmission Shift Improvements

OVERVIEW:

This bulletin involves selectively erasing and reprogramming the Powertrain Control

Module (PCM) with new software.

MODELS:

2012 - 2013 (JC) Journey

NOTE: This bulletin applies to vehicle equipped with a 3.6L or 2.4L engine (sales

code ERB or ED3) and a 6 speed automatic transmission (sales code DG2)

built before October 23, 2012 (MDH 1023XX).

SYMPTOM/CONDITION:

The customer may experience any of the following:

·

Malfunction Indicator Lamp (MIL) illumination. Upon further investigation the

Technician may find that P0108 - Manifold Absolute Pressure Sensor Circuit High

NUMBER:

18-008-13

GROUP:

Vehicle Performance

DATE:

February 21, 2013

has been set active or stored

3.6L engine.

NOTE: MIL Illumination for P0108 - Manifold Absolute Pressure Sensor Circuit

High affects only 2012 model year vehicles equipped with a 3.6L engine

(sales code ERB).

·

1 - 2 upshift clunk or bump 2.4L & 3.6L engines

·

3 - 4 harsh upshift at closed throttle after a WOT stab in 1st or 2nd gear. 2.4L & 3.6L

engines

·

4 - 5 upshift clunk or bump 2.4L & 3.6L engines

·

5 - 6 upshift clunk or bump 3.6L engine

·

6 - 5 downshift clunk or bump 3.6L engine

·

6 - 4 downshift clunk or bump 3.6L engine

·

RPM Fluctuating or Jerking feeling while operating in cruise control. Condition is

more noticeable when the vehicle is going up and down grades.

2.4L & 3.6L

engines

·

1 - 2 harsh upshift going down a grade 2.4L engine

·

3 - 2 downshift clunk or bump 2.4L engine

·

4 - 3 downshift clunk or bump 2.4L engine

·

Improves the consistency of how shifts are controlled during upshifts “torque

management”.

·

Delayed downshifts 3.6L engine

Updating the software will correct the conditions listed above.

DIAGNOSIS:

Using a Scan Tool (wiTECH) with the appropriate Diagnostic Procedures available in

TechCONNECT, verify all engine systems are functioning as designed. If DTC's other then

the one listed above are present record them on the repair order and repair as necessary

before proceeding further with this bulletin.

**If a customer’s VIN is listed in VIP or your RRT VIN list, perform the repair. For all other

customers that describe the symptom/condition or if the technician finds the listed DTCs,

perform the Repair Procedure.**

PARTS REQUIRED:

Qty. Part No. Description

1 04275086AD Label, Authorized Modification

REPAIR PROCEDURE:

NOTE: Install a battery charger to ensure battery voltage does not drop below 13.2

volts. Do not allow the charging voltage to climb above 13.5 volts during the

flash process.

NOTE: If this flash process is interrupted/aborted, the flash should be restarted.

1. Reprogram the PCM with the latest software. Follow the detailed service procedures

available in DealerCONNECT/TechCONNECT, Refer To Group 8 - Electrical >

Electronic Control Modules - Service Information > Module - Powertrain Control >

Standard Procedures > PCM/ECM Programming.

18-008-13 -2-

2.

After PCM reprogramming, the following must be performed: clear any DTC's that

may have been set in other modules due to reprogramming. The wiTECH application

will automatically present all DTCs after the flash and allow the tech to clear them.

3. Type the necessary information on the “Authorized Modification Label” and attach it

near the VECI label.

POLICY:

Reimbursable within the provisions of the warranty.

TIME ALLOWANCE:

Labor Operation No: Description Amount

18-19-06-K1 Module, Powertrain Control (PCM) - Reprogram

(1 - Semi Skilled)

0.2 Hrs.

FAILURE CODE:

FM Flash Module

-3- 18-008-13

Edited September 10, 2013 by Journeyman425

[bigtsr]

Print it out and take it to the dealer

makes your case more believable.

[Journeyman425]

That should not be necessary. Every C/J/D/R dealer has the same access and information. All that is needed is the VIN which they already have. When the service advisor writes your repair order, reiterate your prior complaint about the transmission's shift quality and advise them that the TSB applies to your VIN (you can tell them you have a relative at a dealer in NY if you want to - we're all family here anyway!) There is absolutely no reason for them not to do it - TSB's are fully reimbursable within the provisions of the New Car Warranty and they will be paid by the factory to do it. Your service advisor may even be paid commission on it if their pay plan is structured as such (most are) although it won't be much. You are welcome to show them what I have posted but they already have it, and they will have to document the eligibility of the TSB by the VIN when they submit the claim for reimbursement.

[bigtsr]

Unfortunately not all service departments share

your spirit of what's right - if you read posts

you will find that some are or appear to be plagued

with laziness and a genuine lack of customer care.

The reason I suggest printing it out takes one

of those concerns out of play and shows that

your an informed owner with concerns that require

addressing.

I spent 34 years in customer service.

[rolly]

I agree with bigstr. Some of the dealers are terrible to deal with. They don't realize that a lot of consumers today are sharing their experiences and not afraid to use word of mouth to ferret out the bad weeds. If for no other reason, the documentation serves them notice that forums give us an opportunity to educate owners as to what they should expect when they have problems. As Journeyman illustrates there are very good people in the system that make ownership a much better experience- kudos!

[DTSGUY]

I have a 2010 SXT AWD and I have the same issue. I brought mine in and they said everything looks just fine but will do a computer update but it didnt change anything.

[Journeyman425]

Unfortunately not all service departments share

your spirit of what's right - if you read posts

you will find that some are or appear to be plagued

with laziness and a genuine lack of customer care.

The reason I suggest printing it out takes one

of those concerns out of play and shows that

your an informed owner with concerns that require

addressing.

I spent 34 years in customer service.

I know that you are right about that, too. It's a shame that there is such incompetence in the dealer body. And not just at Chrysler stores, mind you - it's industry-wide. The manufacturers are trying very hard to educate their people in product knowledge and customer service but it's a slow process fraught with seemingly insurmoutable obstacles - cost-cutting and greed at the ownership (principal) level being only a couple of many. But getting back to the topic - I agree that you sometimes have to spell it out for people that you mean business, even though that should never be necessary and the service department's mission should be to cater to the customer. Sometimes I'm a bit naive because I work in the community that I live in, which is relatively small and word-of-mouth, as Rolly states, is a very powerful tool - much more so than advertising. Not trying to pat myself on the back, but my store would be out of business in a big hurry if we didn't do the right thing by our customers in the small-town arena that we operate in.

[pdaddzy]

Thank you for all of the advice and the recommendations. I will be taking the Journey in for an oil change soon and will have them look at this TSB you have provided. I am hopeful this will take care of the 3rd gear issue. If you were to take this out of the picture we have been very pleased with the vehicle so I would love to have that feeling of everything working properly. Especially seeing as this is my first new vehicle.

I already have a little bit of grudge against Dodge seeing as we has an issue with the oil light coming on within the first month. During this time they had the vehicle at least three times and they returned it to us with scratches and the new smell car gone, I know it is little but I didn't even get to enjoy the new car smell. And I had to take it back to get the scratches fixed. I wrote this off in my mind that it could happen to anyone or any vehicle but it left a bad taste in my mouth to be honest.

I will post an update after I take it in.

[Journeyman425]

I know it is little but I didn't even get to enjoy the new car smell.

That is not insignificant. Every time you get in your new car and breathe in that wonderful new car smell, you are reminded that you do indeed have a new car, accompanied by that short wave of pride and joy that goes along with it. My kids love the new car smell. There is still hint of it in our three month old Journey but it's beginning to fade. To have it robbed from you really is a shame. You are preaching to a very empathic choir here!

[redtomatoman]

I didn't even get to enjoy the new car smell.

Look on the bright side. All those volatile chemicals in the new plastics and glues have been accused of being somewhat toxic. Not saying its true. Dunno. At least you missed that.

Peace.

[rolly]

redtomatoman is right about the off gassing of the plastic, glues, carpetting and foam upholstery, but you can buy air fresheners for the "new car" scent.

[Journeyman425]

Yes, I have heard the same about the outgassing of plastics - but man it smells great!

[Chris1276]

I love the leather scrnt of my sears.. As a matter of fact i bought learher pine tree air freshener.... Which my wife hates and makes her dizzy!! :-)

[Maverick24]

Hey Journeyman425, I see you have a Journey 2013 crew. I also just bought a new 2013 Crew back in July. I love this vehicle it is my first new car. But i was wondering if you have any issues with the shifting in the Dodge Journey.

Seems mine up shifts fast. I'm in 5th gear going around 60km. This is fine until i hit a hill then the engine feels bogged down trying to get up the hill. I give it a bit of gas and the engine is very sluggish unless i give it good amount of throttle to get it to kick down a gear. The other issue is sometimes it feels like it shifts very hard up and down in the lower gears. Kind of like a kick when it shifts up and down

The other issue is: When i start the Journey i hear a whining sound from the engine. Not so much on the out side of the car but from the inside around the center console

do you have have any of these issues?

[Journeyman425]

Maverick - my only real complaint about the car is, in fact, the way it shifts. It upshifts very quickly and a bit too abruptly for my tastes. It's done that way for fuel economy, but at the expense of driveability, in my opinon.

The 3.6 liter minivans have an "ECON" button on the dash which alters the shift program. In the ECON mode, they shift very much like our Journeys do - quickly getting into higher gears, keeping the revs down, and shifting rather abruptly. When switched out of ECON, the engine is allowed to rev higher and the transmission holds the lower gear longer. The result is a much smoother upshift. I don't know what the fuel economy penalty is but frankly, it's worth the trade. I wish the Journey was equipped with this dual mode feature and I am surprised that is has been omitted. If I use Autostick and allow the revs to build a couple of hundred RPM higher than what the TCM is programmed for, the transmission shifts absolutely seamlessly, and I can only tell a gearchange by the engine sound or by watching the tach. I would use Autostick more often but I find the position of the shift lever relative to the center console a bit awkward. I use Autostick all the time in my 300M because I like it and the ergonomics of the shifter are much more user-friendly in this regard.

Ditto for the hill climbing scenario, too. Sixth gear is extremely tall - the engine turns about 1600 RPM at 70 MPH. Even though about 90% of the engine's torque is available at this RPM, it needs horsepower to accelerate up the hills and to overcome aero drag, and it's not making enough HP at those RPM to overcome it without a downshift. The cruise control attests to this. It loses at least a good 3 MPH or so before the converter unlocks or a downshift to 5th occurs to maintain the set speed on a hill. Again, my 300M, which is a 4 speed 42LE transmission, will maintain a much more accurate setting since the engine is turning about 2200 RPM at the same speeds. It's not nearly as busy, but the fuel economy is lower, too.

I don't hear any whining sound when I start mine, but it does make a moaning sound which I hear outside and inside after a cold start and the engine is running in that 1200 RPM cold start range. I've grown accustomed to it since I work around the 3.6 all day and it is common. I'll pay closer attention to it next time I start it - I think you and I may be hearing two different things. I'm not sure if what you are hearing is normal or not. We've got three new Journeys due in to my store over the next month or so. I'll give a listen to them as well and let you know what I hear.

[Maverick24]

Thanks for the info, I might mention this problem when it goes in for it's first oil change.

I am sure mine is a whining sound. tonight i was out picking up the wife and i was waiting in the car. So i thought i would give it a little listen. I happened to move the steering wheel a bit and the RPM's rose up and i could hear the whining. It kind of sounds like the power steering would when it's on it's way out

I also wanted to ask what oil you put in your Journey. Synthetic or regular oil? I have always put Synthetic in all my vehicles but i have never owned a brand new one

Thanks again.

[Journeh]

Thanks for the info, I might mention this problem when it goes in for it's first oil change.

I am sure mine is a whining sound. tonight i was out picking up the wife and i was waiting in the car. So i thought i would give it a little listen. I happened to move the steering wheel a bit and the RPM's rose up and i could hear the whining. It kind of sounds like the power steering would when it's on it's way out

I also wanted to ask what oil you put in your Journey. Synthetic or regular oil? I have always put Synthetic in all my vehicles but i have never owned a brand new one

Thanks again.

Hi, Maverick...my 2013 3.6 also has that whine...I can hear it @idle and as I'm accelerating, but once I'm @ cruise speed ,it isn't as audible. The noise went away when the dealer removed the serp. belt..so it's something being spun by the belt.

[Maverick24]

Hey Journeh, So did they replace the belt or part?

and did you just take it to the dealer and say this thing has a whine when i start it and at idle?

Also was it covered under the warranty?

[Journeyman425]

Maverick - it can't hurt to inquire about software updates to the TCM when you bring the car in for service. How many miles are on it? Remember, the transmission has adaptives which learn your style of driving and alter the shift points accordingly. These adaptives can sometimes take 1500 miles or more to fully set, which will alter shift quality as well. Mine did indeed smooth out a little as I got closer to 2000 miles. I have 6900 miles on it now. If you want, you can post the last eight digits of your VIN and your mileage, and I can check if there are any updates for you. Mine is fully up-to-date with the latest software release, and for now that is as smooth as it will get until the next enhancements are released, if at all. We'll see.

The car comes with conventional 5W-20 oil as the factory fill. Synthetics are not required. I changed the oil at 4200 miles with regular oil, but am seriously considering switching to synthetic oil at the next service. The more I read about synthetic oil, the more I am being sold on its superior lubricating properties and its resistance to breakdown and its capacity to absorb contaminants. The 3.6 is a highly precise and sophisticated powerplant, and I want to keep it running perfectly for a long time. My 300M has always had regular oil changes every 3500 miles or less, on conventional oil, and still runs normally with over 284,000 miles. No smoke, and consumption is about a quart every 2000 miles. It's kind of a quandary for me but I think while it's new I'm going to change over to synthetic. What are your plans? We'll probably keep this car like our 300M and drive it until it dies. If you don't think you'll keep it for more than a few years or less than 100K miles, then don't spend the extra $$ on synthetics. If your in it for the long term like us, then it may be a wise choice.

[Maverick24]

DT655608 I have 4700 Km. I believe that's 2920 miles

is there a way to reset the adaptive transmission or does it just learn over time as your driving ways change?

because when i first bought the vehicle i followed the manual and didn't push it for the first 500 Km

[Journeh]

We should start a new topic.

[burn2011]

Glad to hear it is not my imagination.... I traded in my Caliber with suspected electronic powertrain control module issues (hesitating and hard shifting) and this hard shifting in my new Crew has made me nervous, especially with only 500 kms on it. I guess I will see how everything settles in over the first 5000km or so before I worry too much.