REar brake caliper issues...

[Rebus]

Last week I noticed an odd rubbing sound, not quite a squeal, but not quite a growl, coming from the passenger rear wheel - especially when turning left. Looked to see if anything seemed out of the ordinary, and noticed that the pads looked awfully thin on both sides of the rear, but nothing other than that. Took it to the dealer and they diagnosed it as "sticking calipers causing excessive wear" and the replaced both rear calipers along with the pads and resurfaced the rotors.

Being as how I am well within the warranty period, I was surprised to find out that I owed $230 when I went to pick it up - for new pads and resurfacing of the rotors. I discussed a bit with our service manager and the warranty clerk, who both said that the "new" company doesn't cover the incidentals on wear and tear items. My service manager actually agreed with me and threw a bit of a fit for me to the warranty clerk, but to no avail.

I think it is ridiculous that this is even a question, but I get the feeling that, like most things, they will first try to get the customer to pay because so many will just not fight it. I am going to get in touch with Customer Care to see if I can get reimbursed due to the fact that the defect is what wore the wear and tear items beyond "normal" - as per the diagnosis of "sticking calipers causing excessive wear".

Does anyone have any tips on making this as quick and painless as possible? Is there a typical set of stages that the process usually has to go through before any resolution, or does it really depend on who you talk to?

[Addicted to Dodge]

Sticky or faulty calipers should be covered under your warranty.

[Addicted to Dodge]

I would call Chrysler Customer Care and explain to them your situation. Be polite and informative, and with some luck they will call the dealer for you and handle it right then and there. I had a problem with getting the little flashlight at the back door of our T&C. After multiple tries to get it through the dealer, I finally called Chrysler Customer Care. The lady put me on hold and called the salesman while I was on the phone. 3 days later I received my flashlight through the mail from the dealer.

Good Luck

[FROGBOX]

Sticky or faulty calipers should be covered under your warranty.

The calipers were covered. He is saying they charged him for just the pads & rotors because they were considered 'wear items'.

While I agree with the OP that it sucks to have to pay out of pocket for new pads & rotors since the reason they wore down was due to the faulty calipers, I have to play devils advocate for a minute. Your car is 2-3 years old and as a result, you have gotten 2-3 years of use out of your rear brakes. So I can sort of see the reasoning behind asking you to pay a part of the bill as you are now getting brand new brakes. Even if they didn't wear prematurely, they would typically be at 50% by now anyway, so you would have had to get them replaced in another year or two anyway. The faulty calipers did wear them prematurely, but not overnight.

I would certainly ask for a full coverage on the replacement parts, but if it were me, I would not be too upset if I negotiated a compromise and agreed to split the cost 50/50 since you did have to replace them earlier than you should have.

I should also note that I was also in a very similar situation than yours a couple months ago. My rear pads were very low on a car with only 37k km (~23k miles). Instead of fighting with Dodge on getting them replaced, I just did the job myself. New pads & rotors were $120 from an online retailer. It was an upgrade from the original pads as I now have ceramic pads that will last much longer. In the process of replacing the pads, I noticed that they were very hard to remove from the brackets that hold them in place. I had to pry them out with a pry bar. They ride in a channel that has a stainless steel shim to prevent it from rusting. In theory, this shim should allow free movement of the pad. The problem in my case was the steel bracket under the shim started to rust and was pushing on the shim, forcing it against the pad and wedging it in place. The pad was no longer free to move as it should. My theory is that the brakes wore so quickly because 1) they are made of a very soft compound that wears fast, and 2) they were constantly rubbing on the rotor because they were stuck in place and that is why they wore faster. I don't think there is anything wrong with the calipers at all. The brakes just need to be serviced (lubed) once a year to prevent them from binding up.

Edited October 29, 2013 by FROGBOX

[Addicted to Dodge]

The calipers were covered. He is saying they charged him for just the pads & rotors because they were considered 'wear items'.

While I agree with the OP that it sucks to have to pay out of pocket for new pads & rotors since the reason they wore down was due to the faulty calipers, I have to play devils advocate for a minute. Your car is 2-3 years old and as a result, you have gotten 2-3 years of use out of your rear brakes. So I can sort of see the reasoning behind asking you to pay a part of the bill as you are now getting brand new brakes. Even if they didn't wear prematurely, they would typically be at 50% by now anyway, so you would have had to get them replaced in another year or two anyway. The faulty calipers did wear them prematurely, but not overnight.

I would certainly ask for a full coverage on the replacement parts, but if it were me, I would not be too upset if I negotiated a compromise and agreed to split the cost 50/50 since you did have to replace them earlier than you should have.

I should also note that I was also in a very similar situation than yours a couple months ago. My rear pads were very low on a car with only 37k km (~23k miles). Instead of fighting with Dodge on getting them replaced, I just did the job myself. New pads & rotors were $120 from an online retailer. It was an upgrade from the original pads as I now have ceramic pads that will last much longer. In the process of replacing the pads, I noticed that they were very hard to remove from the brackets that hold them in place. I had to pry them out with a pry bar. They ride in a channel that has a stainless steel shim to prevent it from rusting. In theory, this shim should allow free movement of the pad. The problem in my case was the steel bracket under the shim started to rust and was pushing on the shim, forcing it against the pad and wedging it in place. The pad was no longer free to move as it should. My theory is that the brakes wore so quickly because 1) they are made of a very soft compound that wears fast, and 2) they were constantly rubbing on the rotor because they were stuck in place and that is why they wore faster. I don't think there is anything wrong with the calipers at all. The brakes just need to be serviced (lubed) once a year to prevent them from binding up.

Ok, my bad. I misread it.

Regardless, I cant say I agree that sticky calipers is acceptable on a 2-3 year old car no matter what the cause.

[FROGBOX]

You are 100% correct. Sticky calipers are not acceptable. That is why the calipers were replaced for free under warranty.

The question is, how much of the repair should he cover and how much should Dodge cover? I do not agree with the current situation that he be on the hook for 100% of the cost of the pads & rotors. If the car was only a few months old, then there is no question Dodge should have to cover 100% of all the replacement parts. But my argument (again, playing devils advocate here) is that the car is not new and it is not unreasonable to compromise on a 50/50 split of the cost of the pads & rotors.

Take car tires or car batteries for example. Many come with replacement warranties. Full replacement within a certain time, usually 1 year, for example. Then a pro rated decrease in coverage the longer the time since the purchase date. If you had a tire that was 50% worn out and had non repairable puncture, would you expect to have a brand new tire for free? No, you pay based on how much of the tire you have already used. This example is no different. The OP got at least 2 years of use from his brakes. Why is it unreasonable to ask him to pay for SOME of that time? I think he should fight for 100% coverage, but not be too disappointed with a 50/50 split if that can be negotiated.

Edited October 30, 2013 by FROGBOX

[Addicted to Dodge]

What good is a warranty if they pick and choose what they want to cover? Brakes and tires are not warranty items, I understand that, but in this case the calipers were the problem that caused his brakes to go bad so quickly. Rear brakes should be trouble free for a long time. And 2-3 years on a set of back brakes is unacceptable. And he did pay $230 for 4 brake pads and 2 rotors to be turned. Its not like they did him any favors there.

All I am saying is, I think his case is worth the fight.

[redtomatoman]

I think I have to agree with A2D here. The calipers (a warrantied part) failed causing near failure of other parts to the point that those parts need to be replaced. Dodge should be on the hook for both. Here's another scenario: What if an electrical problem caused by a faulty wire causes a short and results in the failure of your battery and BCM? Should Dodge replace that wire and leave the customer on the hook for the expensive battery and BCM? The obvious answer is No. Same exact rules apply here.

The implication of a warranty, IMO, is that Dodge is confident that few problems will occur and is good to remedy those problems in their entirety. Now Chrysler's lawyers may correct my last phrase by saying to the extent of the warranty. And, while it my be legal, that defies the good faith of Dodge's warranty, IMO. This is why we spend b'zillions of dollars in legal fights. Stupid. Dodge just needs to man up. If Dodge would just honor the good faith of their warranty, the dealer would not have been allowed to charge Rebus a single dime for this problem.

Just one other comment here. Chrysler/Dodge and all car companies use the in their entirety implication of their warranty to sell cars. I'm sure there are no car manufactures coaching their salespeople to say that the warranty is good to fix most of any given problem after they purchase a vehicle. Lawyers and legal language have made warranties a sort of bait and switch.

Peace.

[FROGBOX]

What good is a warranty if they pick and choose what they want to cover? Brakes and tires are not warranty items, I understand that, but in this case the calipers were the problem that caused his brakes to go bad so quickly. Rear brakes should be trouble free for a long time. And 2-3 years on a set of back brakes is unacceptable. And he did pay $230 for 4 brake pads and 2 rotors to be turned. Its not like they did him any favors there.

All I am saying is, I think his case is worth the fight.

Don't get me wrong here. I agree 100% that he should fight the charges. I didn't say he shouldn't fight. I am not defending the dealer. I think he got ripped and should be compensated. I simply wanted to point out that he did get some use out of them before they wore out and it is not unreasonable to pay for a part of the use he did get. I don't agree with it, but I can understand it.

I think I have to agree with A2D here. The calipers (a warrantied part) failed causing near failure of other parts to the point that those parts need to be replaced. Dodge should be on the hook for both. Here's another scenario: What if an electrical problem caused by a faulty wire causes a short and results in the failure of your battery and BCM? Should Dodge replace that wire and leave the customer on the hook for the expensive battery and BCM? The obvious answer is No. Same exact rules apply here.

You are comparing apples to oranges. A BCM is not a wear item. In your scenario, absolutely the whole job should be covered, not just the wire. But since brakes are a wear item, and the OP did get SOME use out of them, it doesn't seem unreasonable to ask him to pay SOME of the cost for new pads. As I said above, I don't agree with it, but I can understand it.

IMO, the calipers, rotors & labor should all have been covered 100% by the dealer. No question. The only thing I think the dealer could reasonably get away with charging for is half the cost of the pads. Thats it. If it were a reputable dealer, the whole job should have been covered.

Edited October 30, 2013 by FROGBOX

[FROGBOX]

Anyway, back on to the original question....how to handle the complaint.

A2D said it best:

I would call Chrysler Customer Care and explain to them your situation. Be polite and informative, and with some luck they will call the dealer for you and handle it right then and there. I had a problem with getting the little flashlight at the back door of our T&C. After multiple tries to get it through the dealer, I finally called Chrysler Customer Care. The lady put me on hold and called the salesman while I was on the phone. 3 days later I received my flashlight through the mail from the dealer.

Good Luck

[Journey_SeXT]

What good is a warranty if they pick and choose what they want to cover? Brakes and tires are not warranty items, I understand that, but in this case the calipers were the problem that caused his brakes to go bad so quickly. Rear brakes should be trouble free for a long time. And 2-3 years on a set of back brakes is unacceptable. And he did pay $230 for 4 brake pads and 2 rotors to be turned. Its not like they did him any favors there.

All I am saying is, I think his case is worth the fight.

I half agree with Frogbox that brake pads and rotors should not be covered "unless" you have an invoice of brake maintenance work done in the past. Usually done once a year where they service the brakes including lubing caliper slide pins and all other brake components that require some brake luibe or antiseize. If that type of service was done then the dealer would be on the hook for the whole cost or at least that is what I think it should be.

Edited October 30, 2013 by Journey_SeXT

[Addicted to Dodge]

I half agree with Frogbox that brake pads and rotors should not be covered "unless" you have an invoice of brake maintenance work done in the past. Usually done once a year where they service the brakes including lubing caliper slide pins and all other brake components that require some brake luibe or antiseize. If that type of service was done then the dealer would be on the hook for the whole cost or at least that is what I think it should be

I guess we agree to disagree. No big deal, everyone has their own opinion in this. Maybe Rebus will find conclusion soon and let us know the results so we all can learn how Dodge handles this.

[Mcgusto82]

I work as a field technician for hospital decontamination. I run into this scenario often.

Any time that our equipment fails and damages something else, they refuse to pay for those damages.

Wear item or not.

We also work on a contract basis, do we have to try and keep them happy, and as long as it isn't absurd, I give in.

I think dodge should've given the break pads at the rear. Weather or not he got 3 years of usage, at this point, no one can tell if they would've lasted another 3, or 6. The most anyone can do is ASSume.

The fact is, his breaks failed by no fault of his. Took time out of his day to take the car in. If dodge or the dealer wanted to wow the customer, he would've got new brakes at the rear for free.

Maybe their #s add up differently than mine.

I make way more money on retaining contracts/customer than if I nickel and dime them.

[redtomatoman]

I work as a field technician for hospital decontamination. I run into this scenario often.

Any time that our equipment fails and damages something else, they refuse to pay for those damages.

Wear item or not.

We also work on a contract basis, do we have to try and keep them happy, and as long as it isn't absurd, I give in.

I think dodge should've given the break pads at the rear. Weather or not he got 3 years of usage, at this point, no one can tell if they would've lasted another 3, or 6. The most anyone can do is ASSume.

The fact is, his breaks failed by no fault of his. Took time out of his day to take the car in. If dodge or the dealer wanted to wow the customer, he would've got new brakes at the rear for free.

Maybe their #s add up differently than mine.

I make way more money on retaining contracts/customer than if I nickel and dime them.

Right. Whether or not the items that failed or were damaged were wear items should not matter. The problem was caused by a failure of a warrantied part. That's the good faith concept that seems to be lost nowadays. Anyway, that's just my opinion. Dodge has a company to run and there are certainly customers willing to pay for "usage". So. . .

Peace.

[FROGBOX]

.......The fact is, his breaks failed by no fault of his. Took time out of his day to take the car in. If dodge or the dealer wanted to wow the customer, he would've got new brakes at the rear for free.....

We do not know that as fact yet. Unless the OP has had his brakes serviced between the time he purchased it and the time of the failure, I am not totally convinced that the OP is not partially at fault. Cars require maintenance. It would be nice to only have to put gas in it and drive, but the reality is, there are HUNDREDS of moving parts in a vehicle and many of them require some kind of attention at some time or another.

As I mentioned before, when I did my rear brakes last month, the rear pads were really stuck in place. They are supposed to move freely so that when pressure is released, they can back off the rotor. The pads being stuck in place caused them to constantly rub against the rotor. I had to remove my pads with a pry bar when they should almost fall out when the caliper is removed. It was 100% my fault for not paying attention to them. I admit it. I assumed that since the car was new, I wouldn't have to pay that much attention to things like that for a few years. I was wrong. My premature break wear was a direct result of lack of maintenance, not a stuck caliper. I took responsibility for it and replaced the parts on my own. I have learned my lesson and will take the 10 minutes to lube the brakes every 6 months when I rotate my wheels. I would be very interested to find out if the OP did have any brake service completed since purchasing the car.

I would be willing to bet a lot of the premature rear brake failures we read about are caused by similar issues and that the calipers are not the root cause of the failure, but a casualty of the damage caused by lack of maintenance. Perhaps the pads getting stuck in place, causing them to constantly rub on the rotor generated enough heat that it transferred to the caliper piston and caused internal damage? Again, a direct result of lack of maintenance causing the failure. This is not fact, just an opinion. But one based on actual experiences with the exact same problem as the OP.

EDIT: After rereading my post, I decided to check on the recommended service intervals for the Dodge Journey. I couldn't find anywhere that said a "brake service" was part of any scheduled maintenance. Only a "brake inspection" to be done every other oil change. If the owner took his Journey to the dealer for its regular service, and the dealer did not perform the inspections properly to find the stuck pads (thus giving them the opportunity to recommend a brake service), then how is the owner supposed to know to ask to have a brake service done. I would have thought that a brake service would be something that was recommended during one of the scheduled intervals. It should be done at least once a year IMHO. Moving parts need lubrication, especially ones exposed the the elements like brake parts are. So if the owner took his Journey to the dealer for its regular servicing, then it would seem as though he is not at fault.

Edited October 31, 2013 by FROGBOX

[Journey_SeXT]

We do not know that as fact yet. Unless the OP has had his brakes serviced between the time he purchased it and the time of the failure, I am not totally convinced that the OP is not partially at fault. Cars require maintenance. It would be nice to only have to put gas in it and drive, but the reality is, there are HUNDREDS of moving parts in a vehicle and many of them require some kind of attention at some time or another.

As I mentioned before, when I did my rear brakes last month, the rear pads were really stuck in place. They are supposed to move freely so that when pressure is released, they can back off the rotor. The pads being stuck in place caused them to constantly rub against the rotor. I had to remove my pads with a pry bar when they should almost fall out when the caliper is removed. It was 100% my fault for not paying attention to them. I admit it. I assumed that since the car was new, I wouldn't have to pay that much attention to things like that for a few years. I was wrong. My premature break wear was a direct result of lack of maintenance, not a stuck caliper. I took responsibility for it and replaced the parts on my own. I have learned my lesson and will take the 10 minutes to lube the brakes every 6 months when I rotate my wheels. I would be very interested to find out if the OP did have any brake service completed since purchasing the car.

I would be willing to bet a lot of the premature rear brake failures we read about are caused by similar issues and that the calipers are not the root cause of the failure, but a casualty of the damage caused by lack of maintenance. Perhaps the pads getting stuck in place, causing them to constantly rub on the rotor generated enough heat that it transferred to the caliper piston and caused internal damage? Again, a direct result of lack of maintenance causing the failure. This is not fact, just an opinion. But one based on actual experiences with the exact same problem as the OP.

EDIT: After rereading my post, I decided to check on the recommended service intervals for the Dodge Journey. I couldn't find anywhere that said a "brake service" was part of any scheduled maintenance. Only a "brake inspection" to be done every other oil change. If the owner took his Journey to the dealer for its regular service, and the dealer did not perform the inspections properly to find the stuck pads (thus giving them the opportunity to recommend a brake service), then how is the owner supposed to know to ask to have a brake service done. I would have thought that a brake service would be something that was recommended during one of the scheduled intervals. It should be done at least once a year IMHO. Moving parts need lubrication, especially ones exposed the the elements like brake parts are. So if the owner took his Journey to the dealer for its regular servicing, then it would seem as though he is not at fault.

The owners manual probably doesn't list the brake service as after the one year they are off the hook on the warranty repairs. The inspection although vague should include inspecting the caliper slide pins too but I guess it only goes as far as checking rotors and pads only.

The dealership I go to has a brake service recommended at every 20,000 km ($200.00 includes taxes) which I have done once but now do the servicing on my own. I'm sure that other dealership also have a similar schedule. It's too bad if no one takes advantage of the brake service work as it is one of the more useful services a dealership offers as opposed to the fuel induction service that costs a lot and not necessary.

[Lawdog1911]

Last weekend my rear brake on the drivers side started clunking loud when braking hard. Like it was catching hard, and now its been chirping. Could I have bad brake issues as well, I only have 40k miles.