POOR HANDLING IN ICY CONDITIONS

[jeff.cox]

My wife drives a 2010 journey with around 60000 km it handles perfectly in dry conditions but if the roads are icy it darts all over the road at highway speeds 80-100kmhr and feels completly out of control ive tried two sets of tires with no change the one set is a winter studded . any ideas greatly appreciated

[jkeaton]

Me thinks any vehicle is difficult to handle in icy conditions driving that fast. Maybe slow down some?

[jeff.cox]

Me thinks any vehicle is difficult to handle in icy conditions driving that fast. Maybe slow down some?

Ive drove alot of vehicles on icy roads none of which handle like this one.

[rolly]

Me thinks any vehicle is difficult to handle in icy conditions driving that fast. Maybe slow down some?

I was thinking the same thing!!!!

[Journey_SeXT]

I don't know too many vehicles that fair to well on ice especially going at 100km/h.....usually us wussy's in Ontario drive according to the weather conditions dropping the speed to almost half on icy highway roads.

[Mrmagoo]

Ive drove alot of vehicles on icy roads none of which handle like this one.

I.ve got the same problem with mine. Must be the fwd. Mine even does it at 60kph. With the weather we've had over the past month had to park it and get into my F150 4x4.

Those guys down east and south don't know our road conditions are different than their's. They have more moisture sitting on top than us due to their warmer temps.

[jkeaton]

If we have icy roads down here, I stay home.....

[jeff.cox]

I don't know too many vehicles that fair to well on ice especially going at 100km/h.....usually us wussy's in Ontario drive according to the weather conditions dropping the speed to almost half on icy highway roads.

driving at 50 km hr for the 7 months of winter we get is not an option . I think you guys are missing the point . this car darts and twitches all over the road like it has a mind of its own . I am a very cautious driver and that is why I am concerned about the handling of this car .

[Jay Sixspeedrt]

Boy, that's not my experience - my AWD Journey handles great on snow covered roads - it's very stable and secure. I make it a point to not exceed 85 km/h (50 mph) when roads have several inches of snow just to be safe - I could go faster than that, but it isn't wise. I just drove home (25 miles one way) at night in a pretty good storm the other night (county sheriff had declared "No unnecessary travel") and I was tooling along on the country two lanes at 50 mph. In fact, I passed a few vehicles driving under 20 mph, which was just TOO cautious.

I wonder if there's an alignment issue or front end problem with your R/T? Has it ALWAYS been the way you describe, or has it slowly worsened?

[Doug D]

My wife drives a 2010 journey with around 60000 km it handles perfectly in dry conditions but if the roads are icy it darts all over the road at highway speeds 80-100kmhr and feels completly out of control ive tried two sets of tires with no change the one set is a winter studded . any ideas greatly appreciated

Driving that fast in snow/icy conditions is, as others have posted, way too fast. Even if I had AWD or 4WD, I would not go that fast. Typically in snow packed/icy conditions I rarely exceed 35 mph and if it's pure ice, 20 mph tops. Doesn't matter what vehicle I have.

IMHO, you need to SLOW DOWN.

[Journey_SeXT]

AWD in my experience is only a real benefit for not getting stuck in the snow or better traction off the start. Once you are in motion and make a fast turn on ice or start swerving on ice the AWD isn't going to help you much eventually ending up in the ditch like many other 4wd's that think they are invincible on the roads.

Edited December 17, 2013 by Journey_SeXT

[Addicted to Dodge]

If we have icy roads down here, I stay home.....

Me too!!! Glad we only get ice once or twice a year (if even that). They don't have salt trucks where I'm at so when it does ice over, we are screwed. Local weather stations incite riots at the grocery stores, people panic in search of milk and bread, and everyone acts as if they have never seen ice or snow before.

AWD in my experience is only a real benefit for not getting stuck in the snow or better traction off the start. Once you are in motion and make a fast turn on ice or start swerving on ice the AWD isn't going to help you much eventually ending up in the ditch like many other 4wd's that think they are invincible on the roads.

That's exactly my thoughts!! My Ram is 4WD and it sucks on icy roads. The back end loses traction almost immediately upon touching the ice. I am sure a good set of winter tires would help but not really an option considering we very seldom see these conditions.

[jkeaton]

driving at 50 km hr for the 7 months of winter we get is not an option . I think you guys are missing the point . this car darts and twitches all over the road like it has a mind of its own . I am a very cautious driver and that is why I am concerned about the handling of this car .

Just another thought, ruts and such that develop on snow/icy roads can grab the wheels and make the vehicle dart all over, I have experienced that myself and if it is frozen, there are probably "tracks" all over the road since people drive their own "line". Maybe the combination of wheelbase, tires, AWD and other factors make the car seem more twitchy when in fact its completely normal, other cars you have driven may be wider, longer, heavier, etc and you don't notice it much. Wonder if you could find another Journey to drive on the same roads and see if it does the same thing then determine it's the nature of the car and something you will have to become accustomed to, drive the Journey at a slower rate of speed.

Edited December 17, 2013 by jkeaton

[redtomatoman]

My DJ is FWD and seems to do fine in light snowy conditions. Ice is a challenge for all vehicles. I almost always choose to drive my 4x4 Dakota in wintery conditions. The only thing I can add to the ice discussion is this: Depending on the type of differential that the DJ has in the back, that may contribute to handling on ice. My Dakota has a limited slip type rear differential and because both wheels have power it does great on snow but it tends to wander on ice. Traditional differentials have power to only one wheel at a time, and the unpowered wheel has the effect of keeping the vehicle more straight in slippery conditions. Not sure how the AWD DJs are set up, but depending on differentials this may be part of the effect.

I have never been a fan of AWD vehicles. I know many love them, and that's fine. IMHO, 4WD systems are much better and are controlled by me. I hate that the AWD systems control themselves. I prefer the 4WD shifter. When its in 4WD, I know it, and there is full power to all the wheels. When I shift it out, I know it, and I know exactly what to expect. All the computer shifting of power to the wheels causes driver confusion, it seems to me.

Peace.

[webslave]

I have, over the years, had them all...single rear drive, dual rear drive (positraction), fwd, fwd with stability (front axle locking), AWD, 4WD and full-time 4WD (Jeep QuadraTrac I and II). 4WD is fine, but, you have to shift to get into it, and not all 4WD units are on-the-fly shift enabled. By the time you know you need it, in some instances, it is too late, other times you have to either slow or stop to enable it and then continue on and then slow or stop to disable it when the roads firm up (most 4WD units lead very short lives if run on dry pavement). When the roads are variable, dry patches with slick intermixed, 4WD is less suitable for those changing conditions.

The best in my book was the QuadraTrac system. Full time 4WD...all the time. My Jeeps have been like tanks; they just go, no pausing, no slipping, just traction if traction was available. For most of us, though, the modern AWD system is quite sufficient. Lighter weight when compared to 4WD systems and no thought involved. You get into a slippery condition where traction for each wheel is variable and constantly changing and the AWD is there to get you through the problem by putting the majority of the torque on the wheel that has traction enough to use it and being able to change the driving wheel almost instantaneously and seamlessly. You don't have to think about it, you don't have to plan around it, it is just there when you need it automatically, most of the time, you don't even realize it is happening. If you don't need it, the JD's AWD defaults to a standard FWD system for fuel mileage. Is it off-road suitable? No, 4WD is much better at rock climbing, mud, etc., but, most of us don't off-road (I have a 4WD truck for that) and most of us stay off roads that 4WD would prove more suitable than AWD. Having had both, I've not found a road condition that my AWD hasn't handled as well as my 4WD Commander did. Have there been roads that were better left to 4WD? Yep, but, when the roads are that bad, I stay off of them until they are plowed or the depth is 6 inches or less and my AWD is quite suitable at that point. I got rid of my Commander (full time 4WD) because of my confidence in the MOPAR AWD system and its ability to go when I need to go, tempered by my own sense of when to be on a road and when I should be parked at home. Shouldn't cause any driver confusion; the driver doesn't have to do anything (unlike 4WD) or plan ahead; they just have to drive with a modicum of common sense and the car's system will handle the "go" part. I know I don't even think about it; it is there when the road condition warrants it and I don't have to do anything to make it happen.

Edited December 17, 2013 by webslave

[Rubberdude88]

Jeff. Does your DJ still have the original tires on it? Tire choice as we all know is key to winter handling and performance.

[jeff.cox]

Jeff. Does your DJ still have the original tires on it? Tire choice as we all know is key to winter handling and performance.

the tires i have on it now are studded winters . it acts the same with the summer tires

[CCCacher]

AWD with winter tires had proved unstoppable for me. I have great control on snowy roads as long as I don't push it too much. I've seen many other vehicles struggling and I just keep going.

Now if I push it too far, usually in the parking lot at work first thing in the morning, I find it will 'snow plow' easily if I turn too sharply without my foot on the gas.

Last year during a big snowstorm I left early for work expecting a longer drive time but the drive was only a few min extra and the parking lot was empty. I turned off the traction control as I wanted to see if I could get all four wheels spinning. I did a couple of AWD donuts no problem and in control (as much as one can be) the whole time. I have a pic, I'll see if I can find it.

I've been nothing but impressed with the winter handling so far.

Now we haven't had much icy driving lately but at that stage I find it doesn't really matter what you are driving vehicle wise but winter tires make it a little better.

If your vehicle is darting around maybe check the allignment. Could be off a little and the tires are fighting each other for grip and direction. One would think you notice uneven tire wear on your all seasons if this was the case.

-----------------

Even my kumo's were OK in the snow. We returned from Florida in November to a snow storm and the 401 (big highway) closed due to an accident. I hadn't changed over my tires yet. During our 10km detour around the accident down really sippery secondary roads I had very few issues, got a little squirrelly once for a sec but I was doing far better than the poor BMW in front of me that probably had summer tires on and couldn't manage more than 40km and was constantly on the verge of ditching. Even when back on the highway, while I had to slow down for some snowy spots, I was still fine at near highway speeds.

[Moparman]

I would suspect you either have a loose suspension part, and/or an alignment issue.

[cruff]

Did you ever find the answer. Just took a long trip with our 2012 awd and had same problems. Barely could keep it on the road on solid ice.

[jkeaton]

Did you ever find the answer. Just took a long trip with our 2012 awd and had same problems. Barely could keep it on the road on solid ice.

Maybe it's cause I'm from the south. I just don't understand how you expect ANY vehicle to act on solid ice?

[webslave]

I have to go along with jkeaton... I live with a fair amount of snow and ice in my area, nothing like the far north, but, enough. Even 4WD vehicles get stuck and most will not venture out when the roads are "solid ice". Even tracked vehicles have limits when on "solid ice" (ask my cousin who slid an M1A1 tank into a ditch during winter training in AK; fortunately it was a training exercise for the tank recovery crews also). There comes a point when the roads are too slick to drive on. 4 wheel drive vehicles will slide unmercifully when all 4 of the wheels are on slick surfaces. The number of folks with 4WD vehicles stuck at the side of the road, thinking they were "invincible", should demonstrate that. So, I don't get where the expectation that AWD is somehow superior to 4WD or that AWD itself is "invincible" in slippery conditions. For AWD to work, at least one of the tires has to have traction; if none of the wheels can find a "bite", then you are at the mercy of ruts, momentum and physics (you will travel in a straight line until something, physically, makes you deviate from it) and if one of the 4 wheels has traction and it is in the rear and the steering wheels don't have traction, then the physics takes over.

So count me in the "I don't get it" camp, too...

[rolly]

Maybe it's cause I'm from the south. I just don't understand how you expect ANY vehicle to act on solid ice?

Well I'm not from the South and I don't understand it either. We've had over 20 inches of snow here in the last week and my Journey hasn't had any trouble navigating- and without snow tires. The only ones I've seen having problems are the ones that blow by the snow plows and the drivers who drive for the conditions. Keep feeding the tow truck drivers- they gotta eat too!

[cruff]

I don't think anyone is getting the point. My Monte Carlo drives fine on it. My truck does speed limit in 2wd with out any problem. The journey can't get over 30 without trying to lose control. Feels like driving on four flat tires. I got rid of a pacifica for this that would handle great in this. Something is wrong with it.

[jkeaton]

Lot of variables in play there comparing a Journey to a Monte Carlo or a truck. Wheelbase, weight, track, tires, etc. If you are convinced something is "wrong" with the vehicle, then I suggest getting it checked out by a qualified mechanic as soon as possible. You could have some broken/loose/worn suspension components causing the issue.

Edited January 6, 2014 by jkeaton