Oil Catch Can

[2013R/T]

Hello everyone, i was looking around and searched catch can, but seems not a whole lot of people install these on their DJ's. I wanted to see if some members have installed one and post up some pictures. Looking at either Billettech, or Speedlogix catch cans. Thanks every one.

[Chris1276]

Hello everyone, i was looking around and searched catch can, but seems not a whole lot of people install these on their DJ's. I wanted to see if some members have installed one and post up some pictures. Looking at either Billettech, or Speedlogix catch cans. Thanks every one.

Please deal with my ignorance... But what is catch can?? What it could do to journey?

[webslave]

I don't know of a lot of people, whether they own a DJ or any other type of car, that bother to install catch cans. They are just one more point of maintenance and would perform little if any advantage to the normally aspirated engines found in most domestic automobiles. Even domestic turbos are not so fast that enough mist is generated or the taking out of the same would provide any hp or torque advantages.

For general information: an oil catch can is used to condense oil mist (vapor) created by rapidly spinning components in high performance engines; turbo driven race cars or normally aspirated race cars that run at high rpms for long periods. Under those conditions, the engines create enough oil mist that if a regular PCV was installed instead, the oil mist would substantially reduce the flash point of the air-fuel mixture in the pistons. A PCV unit, installed in all cars, recycles that "mist" (what little there is in normal use) through the intake system where it is burned with a very negligible impact on ignition. If you vented the vapor hose into atmosphere (against the law), you wouldn't be able to tell the difference aside from adding to air pollution. A catch can condenses it into, you guessed it, a can that must be emptied periodically to get rid of the residue.

That's a simplified explanation, but, unless you are racing your DJ and run at near red-line for hours on end, I find no reason for "most people" to ever even consider one, let alone install one. With today's modern transmissions designed to keep the engine in the <2k rpm range at cruise, a catch can isn't needed.

[2013R/T]

Well ok, a catch can pretty much catches /separates the oil for the crank case into the can instead of the oil possibly going into the air filter tube. Keeps engine and throttle body clean from oil. If you look at your engine bay you will see a hose connecting from the engine that is routed into the Air filter intake tube. A lot of V8 guys install these (I come from the LX world i.e. Chargers,300C,Challanger platform) almost everyone has one. Amongst others, but I am new to the 3.6 V6 of Chrysler/Dodge so I thought I’d ask.

here an example

http://www.squidoo.com/oil-catch-cans

[2013R/T]

Thanks webslave" for the info....

I do not race my 300C which has a catch can and i empty it every 3k milkes or oil change. I usually average about 1-2 ounces of oil inside the catch can THAT DID NOT make into my intake manifold. Everytime i check the throttle body its always clean as a "whistle...

[2013R/T]

qoute"An oil catch can doesn't add any power or make any cool noises so it is often overlooked when modifying vehicles. However, a catch can will ensure you are always running the most power possible by having a cleaner intake tract free of oil. It will also ensure your engine is running as efficiently as possible. This picture shows you what the oil catch can can capture. This liquid would otherwise make its way back into the combustion chamber!"

[webslave]

I had 268,000 miles on my 3.8 liter V6 in a 1996 Grand Caravan. No catch can and the throttle body was spotless. If you run the right type of oil, keep it changed and keep your PCV cleaned, the amount of vapor will do nothing to improve the performance or driveability of the modern engine. The amount of fluid in the catch can can look very deceptive; ugh! that is going in my engine. The truth of the matter is that it comes from a mist that, under most circumstances also contains gas blow-by and the mixture is actually flammable and the cooling effect of that mist in the intake system is taken into account in the design of the intake system as a whole. Taking the mist out of the system will provide no increase in performance or savings in fuel mileage to the domestic automobile engine so there has been no "uptake" in catch can installations in the domestic market. Racing yes; soccer mom no.

I have no problem with catch cans... I used to build race cars and they were part and parcel of the "package" for the track. At high rpms, the engines on the track throw out huge amounts of mist and racing engines are expensive...expensive to the point that worn rings (increases blow by) exacerbate the problem and the catch can is a really good way to keep those engines in their best racing form for the longest amount of time between tear downs. I, IMHO, do feel that it is just one more maintenance point that isn't necessary in today's street cars and given the number of people that are going to extended change systems on their oils, it is a maintenance point that is likely to be ignored and if you think sucking oil mist may not be "cool", then imagine the engine that sucks down raw oil from a catch can that's been ignored... A PCV is cheap to produce and easy to clean and just as effective in the domestic street engines.

Again, if you want to run a catch can, by all means do. They are another solution to crankcase vapors and a good one at that. However, in the average lifespan of the domestic automobile engines and the way that they are used and maintained, there is absolutely no reason to have one of those instead of a PCV system in proper repair and a PCV is much easier (it is customary; how many folks, if they bought your 300C would even know what a catch can is, let alone that they had to do anything with it...) for shops to handle. They are all mounted in pretty much the same place and all work the same. A PCV will also let you know it has gone bad by the way the engine behaves, not so a neglected catch can.

When things are "different" or unusual, they cause problems. I had an Austin Healey with dual side draft SU carbs. Those carburetors had oil pans; one in each and each carburetor had a dipstick. Do you know how many people cussed at their British cars and the way they ran when all they needed to do was top up the oil in the carbs? Just an odd ball system that you wouldn't find on any other cars and would never even think about. Even British repair shops overlooked them frequently as the carb (SU) wasn't used on all models in any given year.

If you want one, install one. Make sure you inspect it regularly (at least every oil change) and keep it clean. I'll keep my "inspect or replace PCV every 100,000 miles" system. One less thing to worry about. I've put, literally, hundreds of thousands of miles on engines with the PCV system with no detrimenal impact to the engine or the engine's performance.

Edited February 28, 2014 by webslave

[Darkpaw]

[...]

I have no problem with catch cans... I used to build race cars and they were part and parcel of the "package" for the track. At high rpms, the engines on the track throw out huge amounts of mist and racing engines are expensive...expensive to the point that worn rings (increases blow by) exacerbate the problem and the catch can is a really good way to keep those engines in their best racing form for the longest amount of time between tear downs. I, IMHO, do feel that it is just one more maintenance point that isn't necessary in today's street cars and given the number of people that are going to extended change systems on their oils, it is a maintenance point that is likely to be ignored and if you think sucking oil mist may not be "cool", then imagine the engine that sucks down raw oil from a catch can that's been ignored... A PCV is cheap to produce and easy to clean and just as effective in the domestic street engines.

[...]

I've put, literally, hundreds of thousands of miles on engines with the PCV system with no detrimenal impact to the engine or the engine's performance.

That is all great, in theory, and that's how things are supposed to work. It's also great for marketing. But in practice, things are not always as they seem.

Did you ever have the plenum off your 3.8 with 200,000+ miles on it? The problem isn't seen on the TB, though a clean butterfly valve may suggest less of an issue.

People put them on their 5.7s because there is so much oil in the vapor that even from regular use, after a couple years there is so much oil build up in the intake manifold that it's hard to believe that somebody didn't just pour a quart of it into there directly. If you Google "hemi oil intake manifold" in Google images, you'll see plenty of examples as to why you need one in a 5.7. It took a few years of use after they started production before these issues were found out. It's around the same amount of time that the 3.6 has now been in use. That being said, I'm curious if we'll start seeing these same types of issues in the 3.6. You won't "see" a problem unless you pull the plenum. Eventually (with the 5.7) the problem becomes more obvious when you start seeing blue smoke on startup, and poor performance due to gummed up valves.

Time will tell on the 3.6. I'm not installing one yet, but I will be watching my oil levels closely. If it's down more than "slightly" between changes, it's throwing it into the intake, which means I'll be installing a catch can.

If you don't plan on keeping your vehicle more than a couple years, it won't matter to you. I'm not planning on changing either of my vehicles (and both have a 3.6) any time in the next 8+ years. If I start seeing oil issues, a catch can is going onto both of them. It could greatly extend the life of the engine.

[2013R/T]

Well said Darkpaw, i totally agree. And me coming from the LX platform i do know how the Hemi's blow bye of the oil cloggs up the Manifold. I started this thread to see if others have installed, and or possibly get the word "oil catch can out on the forum". Fromw what ive head,, read, and seen my self the 3.6 V6 is a great engine overall, and keeping its extended life is what i want to do. (Wife will not get a new vehice for probably another 5+ years) I think i am going to lurk maybe the Challanger & Charger V6 forums see what they have seen on the 3.6. If indeed an oil catch can will be benificial...

[webslave]

As I said earlier...if you want one get one. I had a 2008 Jeep Commander Hemi Limited. I did have the plenum off ... In fact the dealership tore the whole engine down (twice) trying to figure out why the engine was throwing a P013A error continuously. In the 5 years I owned that Jeep, they never did figure it out (I drove almost 158,000 miles with the check engine light on), but, in both the tear downs, the entire engine was spotless and I used that Jeep for towing a 6500 lb. travel trailer for most of those miles. In fact, the whole reason I have the DJ is the company did a "buy back" of the Jeep to maintain "good relations" with me; I've bought a lot of vehicles from that one dealership and I've only been local to him for 8 years while being a MOPAR man for as long as I can remember since my early 20's. They did right by me; took them awhile, but, they came through. As for having the plenum off my 3.8? Why would I take it off? The vehicle ran fine from the day I bought it and if it weren't for the body giving up the ghost, it would still be running (didn't burn any oil between changes the entire time I owned it). That's my point; why worry about a problem that has no impact on the purpose of owning a "people mover"? I've got a friend that has the same Jeep (his is black, mine was brick red) and he's never had any issues with his Hemi. 198,000 miles on his clock, most of them towing; so, not every Hemi is dead on the side of the road from a dirty plenum or mildly coated valves. There are many of those Hemi's on the road and I would imagine you would have to look really long and hard to find one with an oil catch can on it.

I've kept many cars well past their "Best used by" dates and mileages and never (except the Chevelle I raced with) had an oil can, nor did I suffer any measurable, quantitative, engine issues regarding power or driveability. If the oil can is your answer to what you perceive as an issue, then install one. I've got a '76 Eldorado that has burnt oil on everything past the butterfly valves. Still starts, even after sitting for 10 months, on the second try and purrs like a kitten. Engines do not have to be "spotless" to achieve their purpose which is to get from point a to point b as economically as possible. IMHO, the only time a "spotless" engine will outperform another is when the final outcome of the race is measured in tenths of second, not pertinent to getting mom to the local grocery store. As I mentioned before, the oil can is a great idea, but, labor intensive for a problem that 99.99% of the population won't be affected by. A die hard racer or backyard mechanic might be inclined to add one, needed or not, as they don't mind spinning a wrench, but, the average user that is already perturbed about maintenance costs for the life of the vehicle is not apt to want to pay to have it maintained, that's the impetus behind synthetics and their longer oil change intervals. With the complexity of modern automotive equipment, there are fewer and fewer "shade tree" mechanics willing to invest the time to learn the new systems or invest the time and money in the tools and expertise needed to do the maintenance. Newer engines burn cleaner, last longer and stay cleaner than the engines of yesteryear...and they do it all with the equipment they come from the factory with. Are there things you can do to improve what the factory gives you? Sure, but, for a given purpose, the added expense above and beyond what is "standard" shows diminshing returns on the investment for most of them and added cost to the purchaser. I remember when a loaded Mercedes was "sky high" elegance at around $15,000, now you can't buy an econobox for that. I had heart failure when I put my "dream truck" together for towing my 5th wheel. $61,000+ delivered. If you start adding everything that would make the automotive system "great" or "top end", then you wouldn't be able to afford it.

I'm all for you getting one, but, I'll leave my stock system alone. I get great mileage, the car starts when I want it to and takes me where I want to go and all without any additional maintenance needed by me from "add ons" that won't affect what I'm looking to get out of the vehicle. It isn't a race car and I don't expect to keep it more that 15-20 years (I may not even live that long; I'm 62 now) and my "filthy" 500 cu in engine that's 38 years old ('76 Eldorado) still runs just fine with 327,000 miles on the stock engine.

None of the above is "theory"; honest to goodness wheels on the ground experience.

Edited March 28, 2014 by webslave

[jkeaton]

Well put slave. (hehe)....To me, oil catch cans are like CAI's. A gimmick invented to steal money from the uninformed. Sure, I have "CAI's" on my Eclipse and my Z71, but ONLY cause it sounds cool and takes no more effort to maintain than a regular filter on the factory intake. IMHO, if cars these days needed a "catch can" for oil blowby that could be detrimental to the life of the engine, manufacturers would install it from the factory, and add it to the maintenance schedule for refurbishment so they could make more money. I view those things in the same light I view the "chips" sold on ebay that promise 100 more HP and 25 more MPG when it's just a resister for the intake air sensor. But, go ahead, add one. It's just one more thing you have to maintain. In this "Set it and forget it" world we live in, I surprised there is still a market for these things for the average, every day driver.

[Darkpaw]

[...]

IMHO, if cars these days needed a "catch can" for oil blowby that could be detrimental to the life of the engine, manufacturers would install it from the factory,

[...]

Ironically, this exact thing was planned. If you do some digging on the oil catch cans, Mopar had one in process of OEM development from Billet Technologies. The plug was pulled on the project, with no explanation given. I imagine lots of people can have ideas of why this happened, but the most logical to me would be that they would be admitting there was a problem in design and be opening themselves up to a marketing nightmare.

Also worth noting is that it isn't just Dodge with this problem. The LT1 engines are notorious for oil blow-by, and even the new engines on the ZL-1 Camaros have owners screaming about it. It's just about basic physics...you have too much oil condensate in the vapor, and the PCV system isn't able to remove it. It has to go somewhere. People that aren't experiencing this problem are probably light on the gas pedal, as this is most likely to be seen only from high vacuum pressure generated while under WOT.

[Darkpaw]

[...]

I view those things in the same light I view the "chips" sold on ebay that promise 100 more HP and 25 more MPG when it's just a resister for the intake air sensor.

[...]

These "chips" should be considered an obvious scam, but seem to be able to still be sold to people that don't know any better. But please don't try to lump them into the same category as a SRI/CAI. There has been a lot of argument about these over the past couple years, but regardless of where you stand in the argument for or against them, you can't break the laws of fluid dynamics.

Upgrading to a SRI/CAI WILL put a higher volume of air into the manifold, period. Without being able to make use of this air increase with being able to tune the PCM, the difference is not significant, but it IS there (shown really only on a dyno). Eventually the engine computer will adapt to the change in air flow, and you'll go back to the same power you had before. So without tuning the PCM, you're going to have to reset the computer every month or so if you actually want that unnoticable extra 10hp at the flywheel.

That being said, I'm still putting one on my DJ. It will never be tunable, and I don't care about an extra couple horsepower...I just like the way it sounds. Consider it an appearance mod, and nothing more, since DiabloSport will never make a tune for the Journey.