Rotors might be gone, but check the pictures

[Marius]

Hi people,

I feel bad starting my posting experience with this, but I've seen valuable info here plus decent response from Dodge reps here in regards to owner's problems. Hopefully, I find a solution to this.

Little bit of a background: end of March 2012 we got our fully loaded Journey R/T. Looked amazing, drove like a dream ...until we moved from Montreal to Vancouver BC. 5000 later (around 8000km on the clock) as we got to Victoria BC the rear tires - factory Kumho- were completely bald. I am not saying worn out, I am saying completely bald.

Under hard break it would shudder, and this has been brought up to the attention of several dealerships (Victoria, Vancouver and Burnaby dealerships). That and the hard shift from 2nd to 3rd gear of the transmission. It was a topic here on this forum that led me to have the Victoria dealership do the software flash and update ...but it hasn't changed much.

Look, I can deal with the tires, I can deal with the hard shift, but when my family's safety is jeopardized because the service team don't do their job I'm beginning to second guess my decision to purchase Dodge, or to keep recommending it to friends and family.

It was late June that it came to my attention -when dealing with a nail in the tire- that the top pivot bolt of rear left wheel was almost completely out. Costco techs didn't even want to tell me what was going on until I showed up.

I brought it to the attention of the last servicing dealership and all after a month from the issue, and me contacting personally the GM and the Service Manager, the service manager just gets back to me and tells me "thanks for letting me know, I'll bring the tech up to speed on this".

Edited August 7, 2014 by Marius

[Marius]

Even more so concerning is that every time this car was serviced I was paying for the "peace of mind" inspection, I've mentioned the breaking shudder repeatedly and every time I was told "It's fine"

I don't want to jump on the disgruntled people wagon. I can deal with issues, as long as they are properly identified and dealerships take ownership of the issue presented. I love my car with all the quirks and "features" but I don't want to pay out of my pocket again (read new set of tires) for new rotors since most likely this was a manufacturing issue.

Trust me, this is the last time I trust anyone doing work without me double checking it.

Edited August 7, 2014 by Marius

[Journey_SeXT]

Wow, that is some scary shite! This is why I do my own maintenance and don't bother having the dealer do it.

[2late4u]

bolt probaly came from the factory with no nut or not torque and back out.which seems hard to believe as they should have been using a electric wrench that records that that nut had been tightened to a certin toruqe at that work place on the assy line. as for the rotors i would not go back to the dealer but go after market rotors as you van do that with no problem check out u tube for some info.. good luck

[jkeaton]

Dealer is the last resort for me, unless I know it will be covered by warranty. I do all I can myself. If I can't figure out something, I'll pay a local shop that I trust for an hour of labor to diagnose a problem, then I'll fix it myself.

Edited August 7, 2014 by jkeaton

[Marius]

bolt probaly came from the factory with no nut or not torque and back out.which seems hard to believe as they should have been using a electric wrench that records that that nut had been tightened to a certin toruqe at that work place on the assy line. as for the rotors i would not go back to the dealer but go after market rotors as you van do that with no problem check out u tube for some info.. good luck

If they hadn't made me pay for a new set of tires under 8k km I'd probably just buy the drilled and slotted rotors and be done with it. Being that it was an issue that was brought to their attention constantly I feel a little "pissed off" and want them to take ownership of their screw up. They had no problem getting my money for the "peace of mind" ...right?

[OhareFred]

That's what we get for "assembled in Mexico". Thank goodness you didn't have a major accident. I'd make the dealer do a lot more then say "sorry"

[2late4u]

I must have missed something in your first post. but what made only your rear tires wear out so soon?Were the front tires okay?I agree the bolt with no nut was sloppy assy. and if you needed new rotors on the rear with only 8 k they should have been covered under your 3/36k warranty as i had problems with my front rotors on my 2011 and at 10k so they turned them, and then at 28k they replaced them under a goodwill warranty replacement.also were they charging you to check your car while it was under warranty as that doesnt sound right? And some members have posted they put on drilled or slotted rotors and then developed some noise problems with them, i have never tried them, so i dont know as i have always just used advance auto rotors on my cars and never had any problems with them. Sorry you are having problems with your journey and let us know what happens in the future.....

[onecrazyfoo4u]

I don't understand how tires can wear out after 5k miles. That seems completely impossible unless they were racing compound tires. That's just downright insane.

[bramfrank]

Or the vehicle was grossly overloaded . . . .

[Marius]

I must have missed something in your first post. but what made only your rear tires wear out so soon?Were the front tires okay?I agree the bolt with no nut was sloppy assy. and if you needed new rotors on the rear with only 8 k they should have been covered under your 3/36k warranty as i had problems with my front rotors on my 2011 and at 10k so they turned them, and then at 28k they replaced them under a goodwill warranty replacement.also were they charging you to check your car while it was under warranty as that doesnt sound right? And some members have posted they put on drilled or slotted rotors and then developed some noise problems with them, i have never tried them, so i dont know as i have always just used advance auto rotors on my cars and never had any problems with them. Sorry you are having problems with your journey and let us know what happens in the future.....

Quick note: no rotors have been changed until now. I'm not a mechanic, it's a new - was a brand new car- I always serviced it at Dodge dealerships. We only noticed the shudder on breaking upon our move to Vancouver from Montreal. We mentioned it to the service guys a few times, we were told it's OK.

Here's the cherry on the cake: I've always paid extra for the "peace of mind" inspection encompassing brake pads' %, rotors etc.

That's what we get for "assembled in Mexico". Thank goodness you didn't have a major accident. I'd make the dealer do a lot more then say "sorry"

Trust me, I often think how lucky I am the bolt somewhat held all the suspension in place. I don't even want to imagine what could have happened if it came loose on highway for example.

I don't understand how tires can wear out after 5k miles. That seems completely impossible unless they were racing compound tires. That's just downright insane.

Kumho Solus factory specs, they were the tires on the car 225/55/R19s

Or the vehicle was grossly overloaded . . .

Thought about this for a while, but besides two adults and 1 3 year old we only took the essentials in furniture. We were towing a Uhaul trailer after us, completely under the factory specs at the time.

After doing some reading I think it has more to do with the AWD, as it is computer activated "as required", correct me if I am wrong. So that would mean that it's only RWD most of the time? Don't know how this works.

[Marius]

Here's the Service Manager's reply today to my request for a resolution on this

Edited August 8, 2014 by Marius

[Marius]

Is there any online CS from Dodge around here, or do I have to try to contact corporate? Funny thing is I was close to getting a fully loaded 3500 RAM. Guess who's buying a Ford soon.

[Lobitz68]

DodgeCACares is the Canadian rep on the board... Don't know that I would ever buy a car because of a bad experience at a dealer, but that fastener being gone is certainly not good. Good luck in getting a resolution; if you are really serious about it, local media always seems to cause enough attention to get things done.

[jkeaton]

Good luck with the Ford....

[DodgeCACares]

Is there any online CS from Dodge around here, or do I have to try to contact corporate? Funny thing is I was close to getting a fully loaded 3500 RAM. Guess who's buying a Ford soon.

DodgeCACares is the Canadian rep on the board... Don't know that I would ever buy a car because of a bad experience at a dealer, but that fastener being gone is certainly not good. Good luck in getting a resolution; if you are really serious about it, local media always seems to cause enough attention to get things done.

Marius,

Sorry to learn of the experience with your dealers and your DJ.

How many kilometers do you have on the vehicle now and what schedule have you been following for tire rotation?

[dj cowboy]

That bolt is supposed to be holding the top of the knuckle in place. Your rear tires wore out because the rear suspension CANNOT be in alignment with that bolt loose. Period. It will cause a negative camber and possible toe issue, meaning the rear tires won't want to travel in the same direction. Aka, wears them out very quickly. I would seriously talk to your dealer and Chrysler and have a little talk about who should have paid for those tires.

Edited August 24, 2014 by dj cowboy

[davea180]

Does AWD have any play in this? It should be a consideration in regards to the tire wear.

Although, I have read in other places that the Khumo tires are not exactly top notch.

[Marius]

Marius,

Sorry to learn of the experience with your dealers and your DJ.

How many kilometers do you have on the vehicle now and what schedule have you been following for tire rotation?

Hi,

I bought the car brand new end of March 2012 in Montreal and moved to BC end of August same year. The car came with the factory Kumho Solus 225/55/R19 set. When we arrived in BC, Victoria precisely, I immediately took the car in to the dealership for an oil change as we had just done 5k km across. Before leaving Montreal as well I had done an oil change and first check up before doing the trans Canada trip. So, under 10k km two oil changes, one tire rotation in Montreal and no more in Victoria because as soon as I took it in for service they've informed me the back tires were bald.

Of course I couldn't believe that and they've (the dealership) tried to escalate it with Kumho but nobody took ownership of this and I wasn't about to leave my family car on unsafe tires so I bit the bullet and bought a set of Michelins which have been on a 5k km rotation schedule ever since.

To make matters worst, when they initially told me about the bald Kumhos I've mentioned the hard shudder on breaking, especially through the Rockies on my way to Vancouver. It wasn't so evident in the plains but the mountains were a different story. I was told it's OK, it's normal. I'm not having the luxury to chase people and complain, been working two jobs, kept my wife in school and thought if I buy a new family car I'll be problem/worry free. Not to mention that each service appointment I was paying for the extra "peace of mind" inspection - brakes, rotors etc. It wasn't until recently that I started reading about Kumho tires, rotors failing and you've seen the message from the service manager. They even offered to "straigten the rotors" for 500$ and charged me for the oil change I've done as the car got towed in. Ridiculous right?

To be honest, at this point I'd like to know if a comprehensive inspection of the rotors, wheel components can be done, because I don't even want to think of the amount of damage that might have accumulated. Car has 50k km now. Could I contact you privately and can you point me in the right direction to a dealership that actually cares, or will I have to look into legal options as well?

[Marius]

That bolt is supposed to be holding the top of the knuckle in place. Your rear tires wore out because the rear suspension CANNOT be in alignment with that bolt loose. Period. It will cause a negative camber and possible toe issue, meaning the rear tires won't want to travel in the same direction. Aka, wears them out very quickly. I would seriously talk to your dealer and Chrysler and have a little talk about who should have paid for those tires.

It's not just the tires, I'm beyond unhappy because it's the safety of my children that was put at risk. Had I been refusing the proper service I'd say OK, it's partially my fault, but every service appointment I was paying for the extra inspections, extra "peace of mind". The service manager is simply dismissing me and that to me is simply bad, bad customer service.

Does AWD have any play in this? It should be a consideration in regards to the tire wear.

Although, I have read in other places that the Khumo tires are not exactly top notch.

Maybe both? I was a little surprised too because I didn't do a thorough research. I liked the size, the comfort and the looks of the Journey RT, but I didn't know it's not a 100% AWD. So, yes, I think you might be right, it might have something to do with this.

[dj cowboy]

That's crazy! Not too surprised though. My car has a strange popping and creaking noise coming out of the front end. Two different Dodge dealers say nothing's wrong with it. I wonder what they'll say at 36001 miles...

[DodgeCACares]

Hi,

I bought the car brand new end of March 2012 in Montreal and moved to BC end of August same year. The car came with the factory Kumho Solus 225/55/R19 set. When we arrived in BC, Victoria precisely, I immediately took the car in to the dealership for an oil change as we had just done 5k km across. Before leaving Montreal as well I had done an oil change and first check up before doing the trans Canada trip. So, under 10k km two oil changes, one tire rotation in Montreal and no more in Victoria because as soon as I took it in for service they've informed me the back tires were bald.

Of course I couldn't believe that and they've (the dealership) tried to escalate it with Kumho but nobody took ownership of this and I wasn't about to leave my family car on unsafe tires so I bit the bullet and bought a set of Michelins which have been on a 5k km rotation schedule ever since.

To make matters worst, when they initially told me about the bald Kumhos I've mentioned the hard shudder on breaking, especially through the Rockies on my way to Vancouver. It wasn't so evident in the plains but the mountains were a different story. I was told it's OK, it's normal. I'm not having the luxury to chase people and complain, been working two jobs, kept my wife in school and thought if I buy a new family car I'll be problem/worry free. Not to mention that each service appointment I was paying for the extra "peace of mind" inspection - brakes, rotors etc. It wasn't until recently that I started reading about Kumho tires, rotors failing and you've seen the message from the service manager. They even offered to "straigten the rotors" for 500$ and charged me for the oil change I've done as the car got towed in. Ridiculous right?

To be honest, at this point I'd like to know if a comprehensive inspection of the rotors, wheel components can be done, because I don't even want to think of the amount of damage that might have accumulated. Car has 50k km now. Could I contact you privately and can you point me in the right direction to a dealership that actually cares, or will I have to look into legal options as well?

Marius,

In this case, I would recommend getting a second opinion if you are having difficulties with your dealer. If you are in Vancouver area, there are two other dealers to choose.

The factory warranty doesn't cover tires and would have to be taken up with the tire manufacturer.

Hopefully you can get this sorted out.

[Lobitz68]

Marius,

In this case, I would recommend getting a second opinion if you are having difficulties with your dealer. If you are in Vancouver area, there are two other dealers to choose.

The factory warranty doesn't cover tires and would have to be taken up with the tire manufacturer.

Hopefully you can get this sorted out.

I disagree... If the tires wore out prematurely due to the issue arising from the bolt (most likely scenario) then I think that the Dodge warranty should cover that. The CAUSE of the issue is almost certainly due to the manufacturer (or maybe the dealer) screwing up...NOT the tire manufacturer.

[Marius]

Marius,

In this case, I would recommend getting a second opinion if you are having difficulties with your dealer. If you are in Vancouver area, there are two other dealers to choose.

The factory warranty doesn't cover tires and would have to be taken up with the tire manufacturer.

Hopefully you can get this sorted out.

Now I am a little more than dissapointed. You realize that the other dealers you just gave me are owned by the same guy. I am getting emails from the other dealership from the same "SALES MANAGER" that just told me -in not so many words- "I'm shit out of luck!"

Here's what I will do, I will go and choose an independent, good reviewed mechanics shop to do a comprehensive check on all suspension, tires, allignment and all that. Once I have the paperwork with the result in my hands I will then contact a lawyer, and then get the lawyer to do their job.

I am not asking for a new car, I am -righteously so- in the right when I am saying that this is horrible customer service on a vehicle in warranty. Shall I dare say that if the vehicle had flipped over and caused a serious accident than I would've seen some real customer service???

Disgusting to say the least.

I disagree... If the tires wore out prematurely due to the issue arising from the bolt (most likely scenario) then I think that the Dodge warranty should cover that. The CAUSE of the issue is almost certainly due to the manufacturer (or maybe the dealer) screwing up...NOT the tire manufacturer.

I don't want to fully agree with this, but it's a very logical probability. Initially when the 1st dealer in Victoria went to Kumho for warranty on the factory tires I thought and assumed it might have been something with the compound in the tires. You might be right on the money though that the negative camber and the extra contact due to towing (again, within factory specs and aired out properly) might have put more stress and worn out the tires prematurely.

It's all left to the test to follow. Once I have a clear picture of what logically might have happened, then I will be able to make a rational and grounded action against whomever it will need to be.

[Marius]

Marius,

In this case, I would recommend getting a second opinion if you are having difficulties with your dealer. If you are in Vancouver area, there are two other dealers to choose.

The factory warranty doesn't cover tires and would have to be taken up with the tire manufacturer.

Hopefully you can get this sorted out.

Hi,

My apologies for resurrecting this thread but I reached out to Chrysler Canada Customer Support and I think I figured out why the service manager didn't give a crap. My vehicle was nearing 60k km and as such he probably just wanted to claim the "basic warranty exemption" on me.

Moment of ponder and such. My only recourse will be legal at this point, if Chrysler doesn't come clean and provides at least the parts for this. This issue was in place from 8000km.

I am waiting for a supervisor call, but I'm not holding my breath at this point.

Best,

Marius