FWD vs AWD in snow

[Lobitz68]

I had duelers on a couple of my trucks... they do quite well.

[dhh3]

I had duelers on a couple of my trucks... they do quite well.

Good to know. I had a FWD car back in the 80's, and if memory serves me well, it did OK. But so much has changed with all of the electronic stuff today.

[FiremanFrach]

I've had a 2009 DJ SXT since 20010 and have had no problems, but I attribute that to decent tires (although there not recommended for deep snow), good plowing in my neighborhood (I have hills on my street) and going into work the night before if we are supposed to get a ton of snow (yes, even in Northern Virginia). I miss my 4x4 but I love my Journey.

Has anyone heard of putting cables on the front tires? Just wondering if that's recommended or totally off the radar.

[jkeaton]

I have to admit, for the miniscule amounts of snow we get here, FWD does just fine, but, we were in NY last weekend where there was basically a blizzard with close to 10" when we arrived at our destination. FWD sucked. Would not get us up the unplowed mountain road. I had to turn the traction control off to keep the front wheels moving because a couple times it seemd like I lost power completely to the front wheels. flooring it resulted in nothing. No spinning, no revving of the engine, etc. Once I turned the TC off and they plowed the road once, I was able to make it up.

[nash211]

First year for me in our Canadian winters, got about a foot of snow, no problem going through it so far with the AWD. Really good on those slippery sections so far, stock Kumo tires. I still want to change out the tires for wider ones and nicer rims.

[Windancer]

First year for me in our Canadian winters, got about a foot of snow, no problem going through it so far with the AWD. Really good on those slippery sections so far, stock Kumo tires. I still want to change out the tires for wider ones and nicer rims.

My Journey is a 2010 R/T AWD, so this winter will be my 5th. I live in Regina, Saskatchewan and we had record amounts of snow in 2012, record lows in 2013 and through it all my Journey performed admirably. I had the stock Kumho's on for 2010, 2011, and 2012 and they were fine, last year in September I put a 235/55/19 Michelin Latitudes on it and it seemed to perform very well. There is no doubt in my mind that a set of true snow tires would probably perform better but the Latitudes seem great, good on ice and slippery conditions as well have very good traction in snow.

Terry

Edited December 10, 2014 by Windancer

[Journeyman425]

Nice to hear from you, Terry - long time no see!

[Windancer]

Thanks, just been very busy lately but I am back..........

Terry

[bigtsr]

Drove 25 miles this am in 4 inches

of fresh nor easter snow with fwd

and Michelin Defenders no problem.

I have always that the driver is the

key to winter driving.

[B4ZINGA]

Drove 25 miles this am in 4 inches

of fresh nor easter snow with fwd

and Michelin Defenders no problem.

I have always that the driver is the

key to winter driving.

Exactly. Drive like a jerk, and even a Jeep won't save you. Drive cautiously and you'll be fine with 4x4, AWD, SH-AWD, FWD, RWD, 1WD, 0WD... sorry, carried away.

[Windancer]

Exactly. Drive like a jerk, and even a Jeep won't save you. Drive cautiously and you'll be fine with 4x4, AWD, SH-AWD, FWD, RWD, 1WD, 0WD... sorry, carried away.

Sooooooo true...............

terry

[Journeyman425]

Exactly. Drive like a jerk, and even a Jeep won't save you. Drive cautiously and you'll be fine with 4x4, AWD, SH-AWD, FWD, RWD, 1WD, 0WD... sorry, carried away.

Man, is that ever true! When 4WD/AWD really began to get popular in the early 2000's, there was always that one driver with his invincibility factor flying high as he went screaming past us in a snowstorm. We would then come upon this idiot a couple of miles down the road, in the median, or a ditch, in the guardrail...you get the idea. These people would regard the 4WD switch/lever as an anti-Issac Newton device...only to receive yet another high-school physics lesson courtesy of the above-mentioned guardrail.

[redtomatoman]

On vacation in the Poconos. Drove through noreaster 3 inches of snow all day yesterday while shopping. Yes, it was a Cherokee, but never touched the transfer case. RWD all day. No problems. Just drove responsibly.

Peace.

[dhh3]

My confidence level is rising everyday now, and it hasn't even snowed yet. You guys are awesome. Thank you.

[Lobitz68]

While I can agree the driver has a lot to do with it, the AWD (or 4WD for that matter) is a nice aid to help when the weather is bad. It doesn't mean you should drive like an ass, but it is a nice way to help you get going in slippery intersections, make it up inclines, get through deeper snow where you may typically have a tough time and start spinning a little, etc. Required? No. Nice to have? Absolutely.

[B4ZINGA]

While I can agree the driver has a lot to do with it, the AWD (or 4WD for that matter) is a nice aid to help when the weather is bad. It doesn't mean you should drive like an ass, but it is a nice way to help you get going in slippery intersections, make it up inclines, get through deeper snow where you may typically have a tough time and start spinning a little, etc. Required? No. Nice to have? Absolutely.

This is true. There were one or two times in Detroit's record winter snowfall last year where I wish my old Charger could send a little bit of its 390 ft-lbs to the front wheels. I didn't get stuck, but it would have been nice. I had to keep traction control turned off (or as "off" as the TC button granted me) just to get going from a stop light.

With the Journey this year I've driven in accumulated snow only once (rather worringly, it hasn't snowed significantly yet, which might be an omen of what's yet to come...) and I felt the AWD kick on a few times with a rear bias to help make turns onto the unplowed residential roads in the metro area. For kicks, I kept my foot in it coming out of the labs parking lot with no traffic and managed to powerslide a bit. I'll admit it, I'm a child from time to time...

On a side note, regarding driver skill, sometimes the opposite is true. Last winter I recall overtaking a Range Rover 4x4 in my RWD sport package Charger in several inches of snow, and I wasn't even trying to show off. A few years ago I drove a rented 2011 Ford Focus SES (the sport model) from Philly to Knoxville and back for Xmas. It snowed while were there, and naturally TN and that part of VA aren't equipped to plow the roads. Local drivers and their big 4x4 Tahoes, Durangos, Expeditions, Yukons, Higlanders, Titans, etc. were overly cautious in the slow lane. The fast lane was relatively untouched and snow covered, and I had no problems passing them in the Focus, which has relatively poor inclement weather motoring abilities (almost got stuck going uphill in a minor blizzard the week before in the same car). Other end of the spectrum, I suppose, proving that 4WD is not inherently superior to 2WD, absent the operator using the organ in their skull. I know, I know, that's asking too much of some people...

[bigtsr]

Again as I said "the driver makes the difference".

You can have the biggest,best awd in the world

and if you don't have experience to reference to you

will be a crappy driver in the element.

[Journeyman425]

Required? No. Nice to have? Absolutely.

I agree there too. If I had to do it again, I would be tempted to go with AWD. We skipped it because we've never had any problems negotiating our flat terrain here with FWD and traction control. But, in hilly terrain or where your own driveway may be steep, I could see the value in it for sure - for the added peace of mind alone. With 30,000 miles on our Journey, I have seen a number of times where on hard acceleration on dry pavement, the front end picks up and there is torque steer and some wheelspin. The AWD system not only responds to wheelspin, but anticipates the potential for it by measuring throttle angle vs. vehicle speed and applying some power to the rear before the front loses traction. Now that is something that I see some real value in and could add to the fun-to-drive factor. My 300M does not exhibit this trait due to its equal length axle shafts, lower torque output and taller first gear ratio. I assumed the Journey would respond in a similar way but I was wrong.

[redtomatoman]

In snow, I try to not use my 4x4 in my Dakota. The thing to remember is that 4WD and AWD help you get going, but they don't help you stop! That's where the biggest problems are often realized.

Peace.

[Journey_SeXT]

In snow, I try to not use my 4x4 in my Dakota. The thing to remember is that 4WD and AWD help you get going, but they don't help you stop! That's where the biggest problems are often realized.

Peace.

...and doesn't help with turns on icy roads....you can have awd, 4wd or 18 wheel drive ice is ice and you will be slipping if you don't respect the conditions of the road.

[nash211]

My Journey is a 2010 R/T AWD, so this winter will be my 5th. I live in Regina, Saskatchewan and we had record amounts of snow in 2012, record lows in 2013 and through it all my Journey performed admirably. I had the stock Kumho's on for 2010, 2011, and 2012 and they were fine, last year in September I put a 235/55/19 Michelin Latitudes on it and it seemed to perform very well. There is no doubt in my mind that a set of true snow tires would probably perform better but the Latitudes seem great, good on ice and slippery conditions as well have very good traction in snow.

Terry

Thanks Terry I live close to you , Melville, Thanks for the Info, I went to the journey from a Dodge Ram 1500, I was concerned about the snow. looks like there should not be any problems for me. I want to change the tires out to something wider, give a more beefier look, probably this coming year.

[nash211]

Well today escaped someone backing into me driving down the back alley, he was backing out, not paying attention, tired to brake, decided to scoot behind him, I stepped on the gas, and drove through some heavier snow, went right behind, all wheels grabbed and escaped narrowly. Thank God. AWL drive worked great today.

[dhh3]

Performs flawlessly. It's possible that my new tires had lot to do with the ease of driving through all the snow we got these last few days: Bridgestone Dueller H/L Alenza Plus (P255/50R19). I had the same tires on my Nitro and never had any issues, although it was a 4x4. I'd imagine when I see my traction control light come on in the Tach is when the AWD would kick in.

BTW, out of curiosity, does anyone know how the AWD works? I tried searching "AWD". Too short. So, I typed in "how does AWD work"? I got threads with work, does, how, AWD - you see where I am going here. AWD was never in the title of a thread, or maybe I just missed it, because the titles were what I was watching. AWD was not highlighted in this thread, so maybe words in the titles don't get highlighted. So, I posted this here.

I'm guessing that the rear driveshaft is always rotating, along with the rear half shafts. I doubt that Dodge would put lock/unlock hubs on the rear. There is some sort of clutch pack full of jello, attached to the transmission (PTO). The drive shaft would be attached to the clutch pack in the front and the rear differential in the back. The front wheels start to spin which causes the jello in the clutch pack to get hot and lock which then sends power to the rear wheels. Or, if the clutch pack was part of the rear differential. with the front wheels spinning, the rear driveshaft would begin to spin faster than the rear wheels, and thus lock the clutch pack, and send power to the rear wheels. Once the jello cools back down, it would be FWD again. Is there a button on the dash where you can lock it in AWD? With all the rotational mass going on, does it affect your MPGs to those that have AWD?

Edited January 8, 2015 by dhh3

[Journeyman425]

From the shop manual. I'll see if I can get some specifics on the actual transfer unit operation. The older setup in the Pacifica operated just as you described, with a viscous coupler which reacted to temperature and hardened with heat and friction. The setup in the Journey is more sophisticated with greater electronic control. Read on:

OPERATION

The primary benefits of All Wheel Drive (AWD) with a Rear Drive Unit (RDU) are:

• Superior straight line acceleration, and cornering on all surfaces.
• Better traction and handling under adverse conditions, resulting in improved hill climbing ability and safer driving.

The AWD system intelligently anticipates/selects front, or AWD in varying torque splits based on conditions, driving style and on a host of "triggers" such as:

• Input to vehicle switches/interfaces such as gear selection; ESC button actuation; wiper settings; and temperature settings
• Environmental influences such as surface grade; vehicle speed; launch characteristics; and relating ESC events
• Dynamic factors including wheel slip; detection of understeer/oversteer; steering angle rate; and acceleration/deceleration rates

Based on all these inputs and more, the system is capable of anticipating, and then delivering infinitely variable amounts of torque combinations between the front and rear driven wheels at launch, all in milliseconds and without driver intervention or feedback.

Edited January 8, 2015 by Journeyman425

[redtomatoman]

I believe the awd system in the DJ is BorgWarner. Some type of on-demand transfer case. That's all I know.

Peace.