Can't Unlock Maps

[pyrater]

I created a new thread with a guide on how to fix it yourself. 

[kcalcutt]

Where can i get CTP13 firmware?

[CameraGuy]

2016 R/T, owned for 1 year 1 month and 17 days, driven for 50100 miles (not a typo or exaggeration), unable to use factory navigation...absolutely unacceptable! Out of warranty, no recall for my VIN. This is clearly an issue across all  chrysler vehicles after doing one night of internet research. Are you paying attention Chrysler? Fix this or I will personally get the ball rolling on a class action law suit.

 

 

that is all

[2late4u]

get in line, glad i dont have the nav... 

[CameraGuy]

P.S.: I just emailed the NBC Washington (D.C.) I-Team in the hopes they will investigate, report, and get Chrysler to do what they should have done years ago and fix this issue. Are you paying attention NOW Chrysler???

Edited March 30, 2017 by CameraGuy
Typo

[bramfrank]

What's the NBC?

As to the warranty, in many jurisdictions the law doesn't allow manufacturers to apply hard limits to warranties and this issue is a clear design defect - depending where you live, you may well be able to get your state's consumer affairs people to force the matter with FCA.

In any case, you probably would have been well recommended to purchase a lifetime warranty from FCA, given the complexities in today's vehicles and dealers' general inability to accurately diagnose and repair gremlins.

[jkeaton]

NBC - Major TV network.

 

LOL....all because navigation does not work as advertised.....good luck with your lawsuit.

[bramfrank]

But it does work as advertised.  It just suffers from periodic memory corruption, and it crashes a whole lot less often than any computer I've ever owned.  How about a class action lawsuit against computer manufacturers?.

[CameraGuy]

5 hours ago, 2late4u said:

get in line, glad i dont have the nav... 

This benefits no one

[CameraGuy]

It does not work as advertised and no, I'm sorry, but I have NEVER owned a computer that was rendered useless on an annual basis due to a known issue that has not been corrected for years and affects every platform of the manufacturers product line with that feature....nor have I ever paid $3000+ for a computer

Edited March 30, 2017 by CameraGuy

[OhareFred]

4 hours ago, bramfrank said:

But it does work as advertised.  It just suffers from periodic memory corruption, and it crashes a whole lot less often than any computer I've ever owned.  How about a class action lawsuit against computer manufacturers?.

Been using the same computer for y5 years, hasnt crashed once...lol

[2late4u]

i guess you dont watch as much porn as bramfrank then.... just kidding bramfrank

[bramfrank]

6 hours ago, CameraGuy said:

It does not work as advertised and no, I'm sorry, but I have NEVER owned a computer that was rendered useless on an annual basis due to a known issue that has not been corrected for years and affects every platform of the manufacturers product line with that feature....nor have I ever paid $3000+ for a computer

Sorry, but it works EXACTLY as advertised. 

It delivers mapping, navigation and, if you subscribe to it; traffic.  And if you paid $3,000 for it you got ripped off.  (I HAVE paid $3,000 AND MORE for computers, by the way, but then that's part of my business).  The Navigation is part of a package that adds $1295 at retail to the price of a vehicle and INCLUDES Automatic 3 zone air conditioning, the ParkAlert system and backup camera if you are in the US, which you are.

And the unit has NOT been rendered useless, per se, since the TGM does a heck of a lot more than just run the navigation subsystem.  And it isn't 'the feature' that suffers the problem, it is the TGM hardware, and only that circuit board which has navigation.  And at this point in time the only vehicle being produced with that hardware is the Journey - and they will not change until the redesigned vehicle is released, supposedly for 2018. 

The only affected subsystem in the hardware package is the navigation component itself, which is actually quite simple to put back into service.  It is just that FCA has decided that THEIR procedure will be to swap the unit with a refurbished one and to then simply reinitialise the removed one and put it into replacement inventory, which is like the old TV repairmen of old who would show up at your home and start replacing tubes from top left to bottom right until the set came back to life.  The problem was, however that he eventually ended up with a case full of marginal, used tubes and eventually it didn't make any difference, since at that point all his tubes wouldn't bring the set back to life.

I don't disagree about the fact that there's a problem with the design; but it isn't something that the NHTSA will get involved with because it has nothing to do with safety, so you *might* start a class action lawsuit and end up with an extended warranty.  But not if you go in with the wrong information.

Edited March 31, 2017 by bramfrank

[CameraGuy]

The navigation has been rendered useless. I never said anything about the entire system. Frankly, after one night of internet searches I find it alarming that there never has been a class action lawsuit about this issue. No I did not pay $3000 for the system, however My understanding is the out of pocket cost for parts and labor to replace the entire unit is in that ballpark. I'm not sure what the NHTSA is, but a class action law suit would get a lot of people some money back that they spent replacing faulty units with "refurbished" faulty units (some have had this issue about once a year for several years). In addition to those people getting some of their hard earned dollars back, the lawsuit would also encourage Chrysler to stop putting faulty equipment with well documented issues in their vehicles year after year only to earn more profit on recycling that same "refurbished" garbage over and over again into the same vehicles causing the same issues that they had before they were "refurbished". Yes I'm mad that my navigation stopped working, yes I want it fixed, but I would rather see Chrysler fix the issue for good and that is my point about a lawsuit. It is completely unacceptable for the equipment to fail as regularly and as early as it does. Chrysler

should be ashamed of themselves for allowing something like that to happen for what is it now?  7 model years in a row? My guess is soon we will hear from those with 2017 models on this post as well....    

 

 

hey "dodge cares" where you at? Care to chime in on this topic again now???

Edited March 31, 2017 by CameraGuy

[bramfrank]

Out of pocket cost to replace a TGM with a brand new one is on the order of $1,800 (list is about $2,200, but every parts department will sell it for less).  Time to replace is about 10 minutes.  Your dealer will *NOT* install a brand new TGM in your vehicle unless you ask him to and are willing to pay; he will, however install a 'remanufactured' one and take your old one back in trade; what he would charge is an unknown to me, since I have never and will never have to pay to resolve the 'can't unlock maps' problem.

As to failing annually?  There is no clock on it.  Some units fail quickly; some after a year or two; others never again.  And I don't know what the percentage of affected units is, but while not insignificant, it is by no means in the majority - mine, for example has not caused problems.  I believe that older units (there have been three versions, the latest of which appeared at some point in the 2013 model year) did not suffer from the problem at all (mine is the latest version).

What IS a problem is that as I described, a percentage of the current version, Nav-equipped TGMs have problems with memory corruption.  Not all, but some.  Unfortunately the cause of the problem has never been properly determined; FCA *believed* that they found the problem with the TGM when the released the CTP16 firmware for the navigator.  Time has proved that they didn't, since units that underwent the R65 recall continue to fail and we now have a CTP17 release in the field.

The real problem is that the percentage of owners with TGMs with issues is made to suffer from recurring problems because when the owner of a vehicle with a susceptible unit suffers a problem FCA's response is to swap it out for a refurbished unit, one that had previously suffered the problem and has simply been reloaded with the same firmware that caused the unit to fail in the first place - and it is my belief that it doesn't matter WHAT firmware they install, that the problem is in hardware, which, under certain circumstances can glitch and corrupt the onboard file system . . . . . and by cycling the susceptible units through their replacement inventory all they are doing is putting highly susceptible units into vehicles to replace those that have already become defective.

If you suffered the problem and FCA 'resolved' it for you, they are replacing your unit with another that is susceptible to and will likely suffer the same problem, never actually resolving the conditions that lead to the failure in the first place.  but if you have a "good" unit, then you are not likely to have that first failure that takes you down the rabbit hole.

Then;  What of people like me who went out and spent money on units by buying them aftermarket;  Do those who bought their own get to participate, since their situation is a bit different?;  FCA will tell those people that those radios don't qualify for warranties even though FCA got paid for them by the radio's original owners and obviously they contain the same defect . . . . . . .
 

So if you'd like to fight the fight feel free.  But you will still need to have accurate information, including such things as the costs, failure rates, impact on lifestyle and such - you can ask FCA for them, of course.  Or you can simply reload your unit and move on.

I just noticed that your vehicle is one year and 17 (I guess a few more by now) days old.  Where is your warranty?  If you are a high mileage driver I again refer to the possibility you had to buy a lifetime warranty which, given the inherent complexities of modern vehicles likely would have been a prudent investment . . . . . but that ship has sailed.  Note though, that because mileage shouldn't be a factor in the life of the TGM, you may well have a valid 'fair use' claim you can use in small claims court.

 

 

Edited March 31, 2017 by bramfrank

[OhareFred]

Sorry Bamfrank, i have to disagree, it is not functioning EXACTLY as described, unless its described as a piece of shit that will constantly break down.  If I pay for a car that has Nav, and the Nav doesnt work properly, how is that ok?  If it was any other part it would be considered broken.  Just because you found a fix (and hats off to you for finding one) that doesnt mean its all good, just an inconvience we have to live with.  Not so. If enough pressure is put on FCA maybe they will come to you for the fix.  I say sell it to them for a ton of money and we will all be happy!

 

just my opinion....l

[bramfrank]

Among the hats I've worn, product manager was one.  I agree with your apparent concern about FCA's handling of the 'can't unlock maps' situation.

 

However, setting aside the concern about the reliability of the product in some vehicles, just what is it that FCA claims it does that you think it doesn't?  Because reliability has nothing to do with feature claims.

 

Unfortunately as far as I know there isn't a preventative fix for those units that do go down - I have no idea how many resources Panasonic, Garmin or FCA have put into trying to determine the root cause, but I suspect it is most probably associated with the GPS board inside the unit.  That board can't cost more than $50 to manufacture.  I have no idea why they don't just swap those boards for new ones in a batch of returned short lived ones and monitor the situation for 3 months or so to see if that resolves the issue, and if it does, then implement the fix as a proper recall (maybe they have?  They haven't said) - or, since there's no point inconveniencing customers whose radios are working properly, simply send a letter to RB5 owners extending their warranties and swap out the failed units for properly repaired ones if/when they do fail (the concept of waiting for a unit to fail provides the same level of inconvenience, but if the unit in your car never fails, why spend the time having it changed?).

Noting that YOUR unit may have failed, mine hasn't and neither do the majority of units out there, so a massive swap-out is likely to be both expensive and time consuming (for both the company and those owners who may not be subject to the problem). 

As you know from reading what I wrote, the issue for people with units that DO fail is that instead of trashing or repairing the ones that are susceptible to whatever the fault is, they simply reset them and put them back out in the field.  That's a policy issue, not one of function.  And for THAT victims of the failures have good reason to complain. 

That the company simply puts known-to-be defective units into client's vehicles is almost fraudulent and those people who have been inconvenienced more than once should be compensated.

[CameraGuy]

Sure it worked ok for a while...it had some nice features, and some that were annoying (complete stop to enter addresses)...but now it completely useless to me with at least 2-3 years before I even think about looking for a new vehicle.  The problem I have with mine failing is that I see a clear trend that has been well documented on the net for years yet there is no fix, if it was just mine and maybe a few here and there over the years then you could chalk it up to a bad unit.

 

I guarantee that for every one person who complains about it online there are at least a dozen more that don't, and It's not just DJs that's have the issues. I'm sure Chrysler has some record of how many have come into their dealerships service departments with this problem and if we saw the true numbers we would all be screaming about it.  Dart, patriot and several other Chrysler  owner forums have similar threads, all with an eerily similar lack of a cure for the problem. The RB5 is not available in all Chrysler vehicles, but it does appear to fail in everyone that it is....

[larryl]

And most people when the unit is out of warranty will just leave it broken and do nothing cause it's not a issue that makes driving impossible.

We payed for a nice "option" that when it works is great but when it locks up it an annoyance. I'm happy that I have extended warranty and can have the issue resolved by that route but it is crazy that they just keep swapping out junk for junk I'm glad the heated wheel doesn't lock up.

Since it seems like the Journey design we have is going to disappear for some redesigned four cylinder piece of crap this will likely be my last Chrysler purchase but I do like this vehicle layout,comfort,power cant be beat by others costing more.

To get a heated steering wheel in a new GM Acadia you have to get the Denali version when all is said and done here in Ontario is over $60,000.00 crazy.

I dont think that it is just Chrysler that ignores peoples complaints in the automotive industry other forums are just as critical of same

[bramfrank]

You do realise you can resuscitate the unit yourself, right?

[CameraGuy]

22 hours ago, bramfrank said:

You do realise you can resuscitate the unit yourself, right?

Sure, I can download pirated software, hack into the system to "resuscitate" it, but should I have to? I'm not going to bother having a service department replace the unit with one that will do exactly the same thing another year down the road, and I'm certainly not going to pay for them to do it. The unit should not have issues like this, this regularly. After the first year or two of them not being able to figure out why it has the issue, it should have been scrapped and redesigned, yet here I am driving the 6th model year with this unit and it still has the same issues. It is a very big inconvenience for me. I am thankful for the gps on my phone since I drive about 1000 miles a week all over the mid Atlantic region doing assignment based work. But....Shame on me for wanting a navigation feature I paid for in a brand new vehicle to function properly for more than a year...Chrysler should just keep putting this piece of junk in vehicles, charging customers for it, and not doing anything to fix the problem for good...

[bramfrank]

I am in total agreement about the DMCA violations that would be required for you to get your unit running by yourself.

But this is not the 6th year of issues with the unit.  The first two iterations of the system did not suffer any significant issues.  This pretty much started halfway through the 2013 model year which is why the R65 recall didn't go back to 2011 - then again the recall only went through to 2015 and they certainly haven't resolved the problem, nor have they covered the earlier affected units (2013-2014).

The real barrier to FCA making an investment in resolving the issue is probably that for the past couple of years only the Journey uses the RB5 - it is a budget, low profit product line that is supposed to be end of life at the end of this model year - maybe they figure they can tough it out and avoid spending the many, many hundreds of thousands of dollars it would cost to integrate the 8.4A platform into the existing Journey and then the hundreds of millions they would be hit for all the units they'd have to replace (including the ones that don't act up) in all of the older platforms beyond the Journey (Dart/Challenger/300) were it has been used.

Again, however, the REAL problem is that some percentage of their radios are subject to the problem.  They have not figured out what the problem is.  They appear to be unwilling to swap out defective units for new ones, but instead recycle defective ones that have simply been reloaded without anything else having been done - that's pretty much the definition of insanity . . . . and also like I wrote, those people wh have been inconvenienced more than once should be compensated.

For the life of me I have no idea why they don't install brand new TGMs, rather than unrepaired defective ones (what they call 'refurbished') into vehicles. That is simply pissing people off for no good reason.

Given the mileage you drive, that lifetime warranty seems more and more like a reasonable investment to me.

[CameraGuy]

Most vehicle repairs (brakes, tune up, belts, basic mechanical, etc) I do myself. Sure a lifetime warranty would have been nice, and probably "well advised", but being that I usually get a new vehicle every 4-5 years was not worth the extra thousands it cost for me. I will certainly put a little more thought into that decision next time though

[Mysty2]

I am back from the dealer and they have to replace the radio again, because of the 'cannot unlock maps' my Journey 2013.  I requested a new unit to the dealer because I told them that when they change this radio it will be the third radio on this Journey. They answer was; they cannot do it, I told him to make a special request and I will phone FCA, he wrote on the work order.  Just spoke to FCA and they told me they cannot send a new radio and that the new refurbished unit have the newest upgrade and that the issue should be fixed. I told the agent that I hope the issue will be fixed with this one and I do not have to change it again.  I mentionned to her that it seems to me that I have to change radio every two years or so.  I also said what is going to happen when the warranty is over and I have to change the radio in 2019. She said that they will have to review the situation if this happen again and she mentionned that it should not.  I hope she is right.  Now have to wait one week before the radio arrives. The dealer did not say anything about any charges for the replacement. Hopefully the extended warranty should cover it.

[aukfan33]

Good luck!  Hopefully it won't continue to be an issue but MANY of us keep going back for this replacement numerous times.  As long as they have the issue documented you can argue that it needs to keep being replaced since it's a known issue until they put a radio that's not a refurb.