33,000km review

[Tonymnyphot]

Here's my review after 33000km behind the wheel of our 2009 Inferno Red SXT. (3.5l with 6 speed auto, three row seating and three zone climate control, 2 year lease ending thankfully in May 2010) Apologies for the metric references, I just don't have the energy to provide conversions....and yes I know I still think in LBS for weight and inches for length

RRT's performed for power steering reservoir noise, tailgate alignment shimming, a couple of software updates, the wiring harness issue.

Transmission - seems like a typical Chrysler slushbox. Read "it is ready to fall apart as soon as the warranty period is over". When I first got the Journey, I was impressed with how smooth the shifts were under light to moderate acceleration, yet when you put your foot down it would snap off impressively crisp yet still smooth shifts. Now since about 1200 kms, yes 1200 kms not 12000 kms, the issues started to develop. I drive 80 KM to work daily along a very congested section of the 401 from Milton to Pickering. (Yeah I know the whole 401 from at least Cambridge to Whitby is congested.) Most of this road experiences stop and go traffic during rush hour, meaning at some point you will be at a complete standstill for a minute, then the car in front of you will hammer the gas only to stop after they have moved 2 car lengths, repeat this for 20 to 40 kms depending on the day and how many raindrops are on your windshield. If you also drive like this, a Journey will probably be fine for you, however if you try to drive smoothly i.e. touch the gas, realizing that the line in front of you is not actually moving and take your foot off the gas to coast for the car length of free space, then you will probably experience a very rough and indecisive shift. When this happens the tranny starts to shift into second, then because you have lifted your foot off the electronic throttle waits a second or two to decide mid shift if it should have done it or not then bangs it into gear hard. This also happens when I accelerate lightly after backing out of the driveway and having to stop 2 houses later at the end of my street. I reported this issue over a year ago when I took it in for an oil change and was told that it would be noted in the records but they could not do anything until it throws a code. Still shifts really nice when you floor it though.

For those of you with the clunk into reverse, yes I do have it, although it doesn't really bother me that much. Years of parking Chryslers on a sloped driveway and having it clunk when you put it in reverse kind of deadens you to this even when it is on a level surface.

Suspension - Fantastic for absorbing moderate bumps, road seams, small potholes, bad when you hit a larger bump or dip in the road and it seems like the back end bounces for the next 10 minutes. For a vehicle that weighs almost 4000 lbs I cannot believe how well it holds the road in a turn, and when performing an emergency lane change. There is little or no ploughing when you put it in to a low speed turn at higher than average speed, unlike my old Caravan which seemed to plough no matter how slow you took a turn. Here's a funny one though, when I back it out of the driveway the struts sound like the are ready to fall out, just like the old Caravan. No noise from our Corolla with over 2000000 kms on it though.

Engine - Most of the time fantastic. Occasionally I notice a whine, but only when the radio is off. On cold days (lower than 15 degrees) there is a strange sputter or misfire under moderate to hard acceleration until the engine is warmed up. Reminds me of a carbureted 1980 ish Dodge Omni with a messed up automatic choke. I would take it to the dealer, but at this point I just can't be bothered, if I let it warm up enough the problem goes away. Why can't I be bothered you ask? Well having to take it in for oil changes every 3000 kms has kind of made me tired of seeing the service department, plus I really don't want to leave it overnight and try to find a replacement ride. Perhaps if both the wife and I are off during the week for a couple of days when it needs its next oil change I'll leave it for them. Power wise it's great, loads of power for passing and accelerating, as long as you are north of 4000 rpm, below that barely acceptable. Would hate to have a 4 cyl...

Brakes - well most of you know the story with these. Brutal brake dust, premature wear out (I have not replaced them yet but will have to before it goes back), squealing under light brake application. Stopping power is fantastic, pedal effort and modulation is good. No issues with the parking brake, it holds well on a moderate grade.

Tires - The 17 inch Kuhmos seem to be a little soft as they are wearing quickly and squeal during low speed drive thru visits. (Started around 24000 kms) Very little grip in the snow and slip a lot when staring to move in the rain. Traction control intervenes so much in 4-6 inches of snow that it will not move and my wife had to get a push! I experienced this last winter in a parking lot and the only way to get it going was to shut the t/c off.

Interior - fit and finish is pretty decent, no glaring gaps, no torn material or faulty stitches. Hate the cheap looking silver painted center stack, the soft dash material is stupid. Why does a dash need to be soft? How often do you touch your dash? The top of the door with the hard plastic corner should be padded, tired of nailing my funny bone on that! The armrests in the door are too low, might as well not even be there, and the centre one is pretty much useless as well. The chrome on the shifter and the dash compartment is great for blinding you in the sun. I don't know what strangely proportioned person decided the steering wheel tilt was adequate, I'm 5' 9" and the only way I can see all of the gauges is to have the seat at the lowest possible height with the back tilted to a position that makes you want to have a nap. The feel of the switches, knobs etc is good, big improvement from the old days. No problems with the visor mirrors or sunglass compartment. Love the storage compartments, lots of them and all are a pretty decent size. Not liking the carpeted seat backs/cargo area though, everything you put back there slides around like it was on teflon. Black interior shows every speck of dust and lint, makes me want to vacuum it every 2 days. Light coloured YES essentials seat material cleans up nicely with water. Factory "all season" mats are crap, way too flat and even too small in the front. What goof decided that the front cupholders should be that far down? You almost need an assistant to climb down a ladder to get your coffee!

Heating/Cooling - AC stinks in the summer, dealer did not notice smell. Tech must live in a 10 year old gym bag if he couldn't notice the smell. Heat bleeds through from the passenger side vent and dries my eyes out when the wife has the vent CLOSED. Heating and cooling in the rear is ineffective, AC on full cold is only cool, heat on high is barely warm.

Exterior - Paint chips easily and is very orange peeled, seems like this is an industry wide issue as I have noticed it on Ford GM and Toyota. Bumpers not matching the body, only a slight difference in the red, noticed it more on my green 95 Intrepid fenders as they were plastic. Bumper ends have popped out of the retaining clips a couple of times, no marks to say that someone has hit the Journey, so not sure why it is happening. Wipers were crap, replaced with CT reflex wipers which are a big improvement though still not perfect.

Gas mileage - Not impressive but not all that bad. Around town averages 14-15 l/100kms, on the highway 10.5 l/100kms at 100km/h around 12 at 120 km/h.

Cargo capacity - better than a car much worse than a "short" Caravan. Don't even think about getting a 4 x 8 sheet of anything in there! Opening is less than 40". Height is restrictive too.

Visibility - A pillars are huge, you can lose a car behind them! Rear visibility is hampered by small rear window and headrests especially with the 3rd row up.

Overall I am disappointed with the quality, I had hoped Chrysler had smartened up, but I guess I'm just a wishful thinker. If the highs of the vehicle outweigh the lows for you then you will be happy, but I would strongly suggest renting one for a week before you buy.

I'm done with Chrysler, which is disappointing considering they make some of the best looking and useful vehicles around.

Hopefully this will help the shoppers out there!

[Canada_Jay]

Looks like you hit everything bang on. This sounds exactly like my SXT that I would love to get rid of.

This is my first (and last) Dodge.

[Burn]

If you also drive like this, a Journey will probably be fine for you, however if you try to drive smoothly i.e. touch the gas, realizing that the line in front of you is not actually moving and take your foot off the gas to coast for the car length of free space, then you will probably experience a very rough and indecisive shift. When this happens the tranny starts to shift into second, then because you have lifted your foot off the electronic throttle waits a second or two to decide mid shift if it should have done it or not then bangs it into gear hard. This also happens when I accelerate lightly after backing out of the driveway and having to stop 2 houses later at the end of my street.

why not have you used the autostick during the bumper to bumper rush hour to ''block'' the tranny in 1st gear ????????? :rolleyes:

[Tonymnyphot]

why not have you used the autostick during the bumper to bumper rush hour to ''block'' the tranny in 1st gear ????????? :rolleyes:

I do use the auto stick it to hold it in first to minimize it. But the gear is so short that you have to shift to second (common for it to be a rough shift) quite frequently and even third when it does get moving for a couple of hundred feet. (Unless you like spending half an hour listening to the engine at 5000rpm.) Here's the fun part about that when I downshift into second half the time it is smooth the other half there's a long pause followed by a huge clunk when it has made it's mind up to do it. (Remember you can't shift into first unless you are below 1000RPM.) My old 99 Caravan with a 4 speed consistently shifted smooth all the time even when I was selecting the gears, and the way this tranny is acting reminds me of how my 95 Intrepid was shifting right before the tranny failed and needed a $2600 rebuild.

In any case you should not have to baby a transmission in this way on a new vehicle with such low mileage. Before the Journey I have owned 3 auto Chryslers with 4 speed auto trannys and driven them for a combined 400000kms and other than the Intrepid (before it crapped out) I have never felt these kind of shifting issues.

[Burn]

I do use the auto stick it to hold it in first to minimize it. But the gear is so short that you have to shift to second (common for it to be a rough shift) quite frequently and even third when it does get moving for a couple of hundred feet. (Unless you like spending half an hour listening to the engine at 5000rpm.) Here's the fun part about that when I downshift into second half the time it is smooth the other half there's a long pause followed by a huge clunk when it has made it's mind up to do it. (Remember you can't shift into first unless you are below 1000RPM.) My old 99 Caravan with a 4 speed consistently shifted smooth all the time even when I was selecting the gears, and the way this tranny is acting reminds me of how my 95 Intrepid was shifting right before the tranny failed and needed a $2600 rebuild.

In any case you should not have to baby a transmission in this way on a new vehicle with such low mileage. Before the Journey I have owned 3 auto Chryslers with 4 speed auto trannys and driven them for a combined 400000kms and other than the Intrepid (before it crapped out) I have never felt these kind of shifting issues.

dunno but maybe it's a re-programming thing you need .. so far i have zero problems with mine.

[Canada_Jay]

dunno but maybe it's a re-programming thing you need .. so far i have zero problems with mine.

Mine was re-programmed/flashed many times. That the only thing my dealer knows how to do. i don't think they can use a wrench unless approved by 3 levels of engineering.

[hmk123]

Too bad to hear about all your troubles. We have had our SE now for about a year and have $13k miles on it and so far had no problems at all. TSBs were done during oil changes. We got the car at a good price and really appreciate its versatility. Am also pleased with the suspension and ride quality.

[Tonymnyphot]

Hope yours continues to be trouble free hmk123!

Took it in today for an oil change and for them to look into the clunk, we'll see if the flash will do something. They also found the outer tie rod ends were loose so they replaced them and did an alignment, and of course told me the front brakes need doing at 38000 kms. Great price on the brakes though, only $445 + 13% tax! I politely turned them down, and will do it myself for $226 tax in. When my wife dropped me off the salesman was on his way out and asked me how it was, so I told him what I thought of it, and then proceeded to tell the 3 other salesmen inside what I thought of it, and that I was looking forward to returning it at the end of April. I feel a little sorry for those guys having to hear negative reports about the products they sell, but I guess if you are selling crap you either have to learn to ignore it or you don't care that you're selling crap. I'll be sending Chrysler Canada some feedback on their product before the lease is up, they'll probably just ignore it, but at least I'll feel better after! It's really a shame that such a usefull good looking vehicle with so much going for it has so many negatives.

[jaymista]

Sorry to hear about all the problems you have been having with your Journey. I haven't had any complaints with mine that compare to yours. I got 44,000 kms and even with some interior design flaws, it has been the best vehicle I have ever driven. I had to get some new brake pads a couple of months ago and I had a problem with my air bag warning light which got replaced under warranty. I must admit I don't drive in the traffic you have had to deal with, thank God. I get my oil changes at every 5000 kms. and I did switch to synthetic oil at my second oil change.

I have read about some of the problems people have voiced on this newsgroup and there have been some major problems in some of the vehicles. It almost seems to me that there needs to be better quality control at the manufacturing level. I think Chrysler plans major updates on several vehicles over the next 3-5 years and I wouldn't be surprised if the Journey is included, at least I hope so because right now I think I would buy another one. That is, unless I run into some of the problems you talked about. I bought an extended warranty just in case but it will run out before I can buy another vehicle. I could be spending the bucks you are for repairs in a couple more years. Meanwhile I'll just nurse my Journey along and hope for the best.

[dp360]

There's a much bigger picture going on here that affects Tonymnyphot's experiences as well as many others. This company (Chrysler) has been been put through the wringer over the past decade. They've gone from top-of-the-world down to bankruptcy during that time frame. The chain of management and ownership miscues along the way are too numerous to go into here. Frankly, it's been amazing that they're still able to design, produce and sell cars at all.

The past three years have been particularly harrowing. Cerberus came in with a mission to slash costs and make the company look good on paper so they could sell them. Quality suffered as a result. I don't care who you are, you're just not going to be enthusiastic about designing, building, testing, marketing, etc. a product when you have no idea if your job or the company you work for is going to be there tomorrow. The economy nosediving just makes things worse.

However, somewhere along the way Cerberus realized they were on the road to ruin and they had to do something about it. They began talking to Fiat in an effort to form a partnership with someone who actually had experience building cars. They also needed to focus on quality in order to keep cars selling. An interesting read would be the following article:

http://detnews.com/article/20091119/AUTO01...s-in-on-quality

Eventually, bankruptcy happened because the economy tanked and the company ran out of money. I'm sure the Fiat deal would have happened anyway, only with some real $$$ behind it. Fiat made out good because they got 20% of the company without spending a single dime. Of course, unlike Daimler, Fiat seems genuinely interested not only in saving Chrysler, but making it an integral part of it's worldwide operations. Now the company has renewed vigor and ambition, as anyone who has been to the brink and gotten a reprieve would have.

Anyway, how's all this affect us Journey owners? By Chrysler's own admission, 2007-2008 was a very dark period quality-wise. Design and manufacturing defects were at an extremely high level, way above the 2006 levels which had remained relatively flat for the previous few years. By early 2009, they claim to be back at 2006 levels with the goal of not stopping there (see article). If you have a Journey built in the 2007-2008, you're likely to experience an unusually large number of defects. Unfortunately, this was the launch window for this product, so a LOT of what is written on the web reflects a product built during those dark days. Does this mean a vehicle built in 2009 is going to be perfect? Of course not. If Chrysler's renewed commitment to quality is for real and ongoing, by definition, a November '09 built product should have fewer defects than a January '09 built one. My anecdotal research kind of supports this. Only time will truly tell.

As for me, I took a chance on the improved quality being for real and not just a bunch of marketing BS. I bought a '10 SXT built in October '09. Maybe I've drank the company Kool Aid, but I'm shooting for zero defects in my first three months of ownership. This is the period by which "Initial Quality" is measured. I'm reporting my experiences over at http://www.truedelta.com for all the world to see. Of course, I'll also post my experiences here.

BTW, if you have a '10 Journey, go over to True Delta and register your vehicle. They've got plenty of '09 data but need '10 owners to report their experiences. FWIW, their '09 data shows that Journey quality has improved over the year but is still considered below industry average.

And for those wondering about Journey's future, a vehicle "refresh" is slated for MY 2011. This is supposed to include powertrain changes, exterior styling tweaks and an interior redesign.

[Tonymnyphot]

So here's a bit of good news for a change. The clunk when backing out of the driveway is gone, must have been the tie rod end they replaced. The PCM flash seems to have the rough shifts fixed, although it appears that the update has re-mapped the accelerator logic. I now have to push the pedal down quite far to get some decent acceleration out of it, still goes like stink when you mat it, but compared to before the update there is almost no response in the first 1/4 of pedal travel. I can get used to it, it's better than the crappy shifting. One apparent good side effect fuel economy seems to have gone up! Anyone else with the PCM flash notice this? I'll have to monitor it for a few weeks to confim, but seems like it after the first week.

[04redmach1]

So here's a bit of good news for a change. The clunk when backing out of the driveway is gone, must have been the tie rod end they replaced. The PCM flash seems to have the rough shifts fixed, although it appears that the update has re-mapped the accelerator logic. I now have to push the pedal down quite far to get some decent acceleration out of it, still goes like stink when you mat it, but compared to before the update there is almost no response in the first 1/4 of pedal travel. I can get used to it, it's better than the crappy shifting. One apparent good side effect fuel economy seems to have gone up! Anyone else with the PCM flash notice this? I'll have to monitor it for a few weeks to confim, but seems like it after the first week.

All 10's are like that now. My wife was asking me about the pedal issue of having to actually "put the pedal to the metal" to ride out. It is an economic thing guys, no worries. When you downshift and gain RPM's you loose gas. They added as many features to help in the hard gas times. Something to get use to, but I can live with it. Last night I finally ran it through the gears a few times hehe.

[Tonymnyphot]

All 10's are like that now. My wife was asking me about the pedal issue of having to actually "put the pedal to the metal" to ride out. It is an economic thing guys, no worries. When you downshift and gain RPM's you loose gas. They added as many features to help in the hard gas times. Something to get use to, but I can live with it. Last night I finally ran it through the gears a few times hehe.

Up to 41000kms now, and the shifting is still smooth since the flash at about 35000kms. Another problem showed up today. The drivers door controls for the mirrors and front windows have crapped out, the dealer can't fit me in tomorrow so I'll have to wait until next week. The front passenger window works from that door, and the rears still work from the drivers door, guess the wife will have to get out of it to get her coffee tomorrow! Anyway, at the end of April the lease is up and I'm sending it back, can't say I'll really miss it after all the aggravation it has been, hope everyone elses Journeys are more pleasant. I'll post how the lease return experience was when the process is complete.